EDIT

The fact of the matter is that only God can fix all of the world’s problems. I’m not saying that we should stop trying to fix the world’s problems, but I do think we need to be reasonable about what we can accomplish. You are right about Christian schools too. They are by no means immune to drugs, language, sex, etc. They also have a problem with bullies.

Yes, only God can fix the world's problems. Human problems require divine solutions. Christian schools: I still remember being pushed into gravel on the playground by a bully when I was in 1st grade. The result? A cut above my eye. Oh, joy! I remember D.A.R.E. classes too, in 6th grade, but I don't remember stuff on self-esteem.

There was one on a prophet that God told to marry a prostitute.

I believe you're talking about the prophet Hosea. God used his marriage to a prostitute as an illustration, an object lesson. Just like Hosea's wife was unfaithful to him, so also God's wife Israel was unfaithful to Him.
/EDIT

I read somewhere months ago, that if you [in general] try to protect your virginity, it’s like a wall or fence. You see how close you can get to it without breaking the barrier. You’ll do things you may later regret. But if you aim to protect your purity, then your virginity is part of the package. You’ll avoid situations where both purity and virginity may be compromised. Virginity: abstinence, don’t have sex. Purity: protect eyes, mind, heart, soul, and spirit from anything impure or unclean, including sex. Purity goes beyond the physical to also the mental, emotional, and spiritual aspects of a person.

Do you know what occurred to me the other day? When people talk about sex, it’s always don’t do X. I’m not always sure they explain why. It is parents’ responsibility to explain why people should be abstinent until marriage, and why purity should be a way of life whether single or married. For there’s more to God’s commandments than “don’t.” There’s also “do” and reasons why. Take for example 1 Corinthians 6 “Now the body is not for fornication [sexual immorality], but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.” There was a time when I didn’t particularly like this verse. But through it, God has shown me just what the body is for and why, and to whom the body belongs and why. (1) “The body is not for fornication” = don’t use your body for any kind of sexual immorality. That’s not why God made you. (2) “The body is . . . for the Lord” = your body belongs to God your Creator, not yourself. Therefore it must be given to Him, as a living sacrifice [Romans 12], not to sin. (3) “The Lord [is] for the body” = your greatest need is God and your greatest desire should be God. Only He can meet your deepest needs and desires. Only God can fulfill or complete you.

Wow, all that science stuff. Impressive! All I know is the Bible. lol Why don’t they teach real science in school? I’d rather learn about how amazing the planet is, via true science, rather than be bombarded with evolution. That’s one reason why I watched, and enjoyed, the PBS program on Einstein’s theory of relativity – and the people in his scientific past who made up E = MC² ... Lavoisier on mass, Faraday on energy, du Chatalet on velocity [?].

At any rate Genesis is critical to our faith because it outlines the reasons for the Fall and the need for our redemption through Christ. I'd go so far as to say that Genesis forms the very bedrock upon which Judeo-Christian religion is based and to discard it as it is is like pulling the cornerstones out from under your house. The house won't stand for very long.

Interesting analogy! The other day, I was reading commentary on Genesis 1 and it mentioned Job 38 “Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?” It made me think of Jesus’ parable, which you alluded to, of the wise man and foolish man in Matthew 7. One built his house on rock and the other on sand. Genesis: foundation of the Bible, of creation. Christ: foundation of our faith [1 Corinthians 3]; we are new creatures, or creations, in Him [2 Corinthians 5]. Christ is the chief cornerstone [1 Peter 2]. What does all this mean? Natural [literal, typological] foreshadows spiritual [poetic, metaphorical].

I’m currently taking an online Bible course, with my church, and I’m studying Genesis. One source I’m using in the course is Dr. Harold Willmington’s “Explore the Message: Great Truths from the Old Testament.” I thought the following description of the Bible fit Shadowlander’s architecture analogy.

The Bible is a beautiful palace built up out of sixty-six blocks of solid marble—the sixty-six books. In the first chapter of Genesis we enter the vestibule, which is filled with the mighty acts of creation. The vestibule gives access to the law courts—the five books of Moses—passing through which we come to the picture gallery of the historical books. Here we find hung upon the walls scenes of battlefields, representations of heroic deeds, and portraits of eminent men belonging to the early days of the world’s history.

Beyond the picture gallery we find the philosophy’s chamber—book of Job—passing thru which we enter the music room—the book of Psalms—where we listen to the grandest strains that ever fell on human ears. Then we come to the business office—the book of Proverbs—where right in the center of the room, stands facing us the motto, “Righteousness exalteth a nation, but sin is a reproach to any people.” From the business office we pass into the chapel—Ecclesiastes, and the Song of Solomon with the Rose of Sharon and the Lily of the Valley, and all manner of fine perfume and fruit and flowers and singing birds.

Finally we reach the observatory—the Prophets, with their telescopes fixed on near and distant stars, and all directed toward “the Bright and Morning Star,” that was soon to arise. Crossing the court we come to the audience chamber of the King—the Gospels—where we find four vivid life-like portraits of the King Himself. Next we enter the work-room of the Holy spirit—the Acts of the Apostles—and beyond that the correspondence-room—the Epistles—where we see Paul and Peter and James and John and Jude busy at their desks, and if you would know what they are writing about, their epistles are open for all to study. Before leaving we stand a moment in the outside gallery—the Revelation—where we look upon some striking pictures of the judgments to come, and the glories to be revealed, concluding with an awe-inspiring picture of the New Jerusalem when the kingdoms of this world shall have become the kingdoms of our God and of His Christ!

And here's more!

Who created the universe?
1 According to David, the Father created all things (Ps. 19:1).
2 However, John declares the Son did it (John 1:3-4).
3 Finally, in other passages, the Holy Spirit is said to have performed the initial act of creation. What are we to believe? The answer is, of course, that all three persons in the Trinity had a part. As an illustration let us consider an important executive who determines to build a spacious and expensive home. He, thus, employs an architect to design the necessary plans for this home. The architect then secures a competent contractor to follow his blueprints. In this illustration the executive is the Father, the architect is the Son, and the contractor is the Holy Spirit. The following verses, then, refer to the work of this Divine Contractor (Ps. 104:30, Job 26:13, Job 33:4)

By the by...anyone have that mysterious formula for deciding which passages are poetic and which are literal?

Hmm...

I'm a pretty staunch theist, but I'm also an engineer and I think there is room to believe that creation could have taken longer than six 24-hour days. It all hinges around how we define "literal" vs "true". Language can contain great truths while being expressed different ways. For instance, it's impossible to translate the phrase "how do you like them apples" into any language other than English and have it retain it's original meaning. That doesn't mean it's incomprehensible, it just takes a LITTLE bit of digging and wisdom to understand it. My grandfather might say "back in my day", without meaning that he owned a 24 hour slice of time all to himself at some point.

I explained earlier about the meaning and use of the Hebrew word “yom.” When paired with a number, it always means a 24-hour day. Genesis is no exception. Context also explains how we should interpret the use of the word “day,” wherever it occurs in the Bible. And the context of Genesis 1 is clear: “And the evening and the morning were the first day.” Take it literally.

Are the days of Genesis 1 really literal 24-hour days? There is strong scholarly and scriptural evidence that the days are indeed literal.
■ The use of a numerical adjective with the word “day” in Genesis 1 would limit it to a normal day.
■ The natural reading of the Genesis account would suggest it.
■ Moses believed it (see Exod. 20:11; 31:17).
■ Edward Young (outstanding Hebrew scholar) believed it.
■ Benjamin Warfield (one of the great Orthodox theologians of all time) believed it.
■ Departmental professors of Oriental language in nine leading universities were once asked the following question by a research scholar: “Do you consider that the Hebrew word Yom (day) as used in Genesis 1 accompanied by a numeral should properly be translated as (a) a day, as commonly understood, (b) an age, or (c) either a day or an age without preference?” The nine universities polled were: Oxford, Cambridge, London, Harvard, Yale, Columbia, Toronto, McGill, and Manitoba. Of these, seven universities responded that it should be translated as a day as commonly understood.
■ As indicated by the genealogies found in Genesis 5 and 11: If evolution is correct and man is really a million years old, then we would be forced to allow a 50,000 year gap between each name in these two chapters. Furthermore, if life itself is nearly five billion years old, then each day in Genesis 1 would have to stand for approximately 700 million years.

EDIT

Genesis 1 and 2 are the creation story, one just goes into more detail than the other.

Agreed. I also like Fencer's explanation, of

Genesis 1 as the story of how an all-powerful Creator made the universe and Genesis 2 is a retelling of that story in a deep personal way. It's like a sports story. First you tell what happened from start to finish. Then you go into the details of what actually happened, even getting quotes from the players. It's the same story told twice in different details.

I don't see any discrepancies either. I really think most of Genesis 2 is just an expansion of what happened on day 6. PrinceCor004: the gap theory refers to a supposed gap between verses 1 and 2 of Genesis 1. I see no gap.
/EDIT

Here's a question: Why would Humankind's fall from grace affect the rest of the Animal Kingdom? Why did some go from vegetarianism to predation? Or did Predators Sin by eating from the Tree of Knowledge Too?

Well, here is Dr. Willmington on Genesis 3 “Cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life. Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee, and thou shalt eat the herb of the field.”

From this point on, man’s paradise becomes a wilderness. The roses now contain thorns and the docile tiger suddenly becomes a hungry meat eater. This will continue to be the case until the curse is lifted during the millennium. In the New Testament Paul writes about all this in Romans 8:19-22. At this point, that immutable scientific principle called the Second Law of Thermodynamics came into being. This law states that when energy is being transformed from one state to another, some of it is turned into heat energy which cannot be converted back into useful form. In other words, this universe may be looked upon as a wound-up clock that is slowly running down. This law is expanded in Psalm 102:26 and Hebrews 1:10-12.

When Adam and Eve sinned, physical and spiritual death entered the universe. It wasn’t there before. Don’t ask me to explain the science of the pair eating leaves or fruit in Eden. I can’t but I’m sure someone else can. But let’s not forget the flood! Who knows what the earth was like before then. The flood literally changed the landscape. And it wasn’t until after the flood that man was even allowed to eat animals. Genesis 9 “Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you, even as the green herb have I given you all things.” This is God giving Noah and his descendents permission to eat meat. Yummy. BUT! In the millennium, “the wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock, and dust shall be the serpent’s meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the Lord” [Isaiah 65]. Relations among animals, and between animals and mankind, will revert to pre-fall Eden.

EDIT
GB: the old NW archives are still available here.
/EDIT

I think some discussed earlier in this thread why Adam sinned, since he wasn’t deceived, and why Satan tempted Eve instead of Adam. Well, I’m reading a book called Portraits of Christ in Genesis, by Martin DeHaan [Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1966]. And in this book, DeHaan gives a few theories on these questions.

1. Eve didn’t hear God’s command to Adam about not eating the tree because she wasn’t created yet. She only knew the command via Adam, who knew God’s word and feared its consequences. He was probably less temptable.
2. Ephesians 5 compare Adam and Eve to Christ and His bride the church.
a. Who fell first? Who was deceived? Eve, like us the redeemed church.
b. As a result of Eve’s transgression, fellowship between her and Adam was broken. It had to be restored. How? By Adam knowingly partaking of the forbidden fruit.
c. Eph 5 “The mystery that Paul speaks of is that Jesus Christ, the spotless Son of God, should be willing to leave His Father’s house and come into the world to save a filthy, fallen, unfaithful ‘wife,’ even by dying on the cross for her.” [pg 39]
d. “Adam also must have known that for Eve to be redeemed, it must be by a human redeemer, later referred to as the seed of the woman. . . .How could Eve bring forth a seed without a husband? . . .Since Adam could not lift Eve to his level without the Redeemer seed, he must lower himself to her level, assume her guilt, become partaker of her sin and condemnation, and then, the separation between them being removed, he could become the father of her seed.” [pp 40-41]
3. 1 Timothy 2 “Eve . . . owed her salvation to her husband” [pg 41]
4. 1 Tim 2 “She shall be saved in childbearing.” Only by bearing a child, only through her seed, could Eve be redeemed, or saved.
5. “Adam’s transgression was different from any other. We sin because we are sinners. Adam became a sinner because he deliberately chose to share in the sin of Eve. In this he was the figure (a type) of Jesus Christ.” [pg 42]

More of Dr. Harold Willmington’s “Explore the Message: Great Truths from the Old Testament”

The Holy Spirit moved (vibrated) upon the earth. From this omnipotent, vibrating energy source began to flow our energy waves—waves of heat and sound magnetism. Thus, the created universe was energized. The earth rotating on its axis also began at this time. Both energy and matter were now present in the space, mass, time framework. The three basic types of force fields were now in effect.
■ Gravitational—the force between two objects
■ Electromagnetic—the force between the electron and the nucleus of an atom
■ nuclear—the force between the proton and neutron within the atom
Note: The account indicates this was a temporary light source to function until the fourth day when the sun, moon, and stars would be created. [physical light vs special light sources]

Lush green vegetation and exotic flowers now grace the newly emerged dry ground. These verses alone totally refute the harmful doctrine of theistic evolution which says life began aeons ago from a glob of scum floating on some remote ocean surface. But to the contrary, Moses tells us life was supernaturally created on the third day of Creation and began on dry ground.

“And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.” That’s a very important verse. You read something for the first time in this verse, and you read it a number of times after this. It’s a little expression — “after his kind” or “after its kind.” This is called the Law of Biogenesis. That’s an 85¢ word, which simply means that life gives birth to similar life, “after its kind.” You don’t get crocodiles from dogs, but you get puppies from dogs. You can’t cross a dog and a cat and get a ‘dat.’ It’s “after its kind.”

On the first day God created physical light. He now creates special light sources. These heavenly bodies were to function in a threefold manner:
■ As signs—they teach and remind men of God’s creative work. (Psalm 8:3 and Romans 1:19-20)
■ As seasons—they function as a calendar, dividing seasons, days, and years, enabling men to accurately plan their work.
■ As light—they replace the temporary light source of the early days. It may be asked why God created the earth on the first day, but waited until the fourth day before establishing the sun, stars, and moon. Two possible reasons are suggested for this, one dealing with priority, the other with prevention.
● Priority: God created the earth first because it was the most important in his mind. It was upon planet earth that he planned to create on the sixth day a creature made in his own image. This creature, man, would live on earth, and not the moon. Then, plans had already been made in the fullness of time for the second person in the Trinity to wrap human flesh and bone about him and come to the planet earth. Finally, it will be upon the earth, not Pluto or Venus, that the King of kings shall someday touch down upon the Mount of Olives to establish his millennial kingdom.
● Prevention: Almost without exception every ancient civilization has worshiped the sun. But God wanted his people to worship its Creator, namely, himself. Thus, he informs us that life and light existed before the sun, and that “every good gift and every perfect gift is from above and cometh down from the Father of lights” (James 1:17).

■ Man immediately becomes the highlight of this day and of the entire creation week. Note the divine account of this act in Gen. 1:26. This is the first strong evidence of the Trinity in the Old Testament (see also Gen. 11:7; Ps. 2:7; 45:7; 110:1; Isa. 48:16).
■ How was man made in the image of God?
● Perhaps because of man’s trinity—man consists of spirit, soul, and body. (1 Thess. 5:23, Heb. 4:12).
● Perhaps because man (like God) knows the differences between good and evil. Only man, among all creatures, has self-consciousness.
● Perhaps God had in mind the future work of Jesus when he took upon himself the body of a man. (John 1:14, 1 Tim. 3:16, Phil. 2:5-8).
● Perhaps God had in mind the future life of the believer when all Christians shall be like Jesus. (Phil. 3:21, Rom. 8:29, 1 John 3:2).
■ He was made in the image of God and possessed the highest kind of life.
● Plant life possessed unconscious life.
● Animal life possessed conscious life.
● Man alone possessed self-conscious life.
Thus, here was a creature who could not only eat of Eden’s delicious food, but would glance heavenward first and thank that one who created both eater and food. No dandelion or dinosaur could do this.

How many false philosophies does the first verse in the Bible refute?
✩ It refutes atheism, for creation is the work of God’s hand.
✩ It refutes evolution, for the universe was created and did not evolve.
✩ It refutes materialism, for the universe did not always exist.
✩ It refutes polytheism, for there is only one God.
✩ It refutes pantheism, for God is apart from and independent of his creation.

And guess what! Unlike distance, area, weight, energy and mass, the Time of Day is one system of measurement that hasn't been successfully made metric yet! Even during the French Revolution. Though they changed the names of months, apparently.

But then I once again kept stumbling into problems. Why would God wait so long? Why would He wait if He could just essentially speak a word and make Earth as it was?

Well for everything under the Sun there is a time and a season (Ecclesiastes), isn't there? Besides God would never take cakes out of the oven too soon. And Shadowlander,, please don't faint if I actually do agree with you that it isn't wrong to question and discuss. Anyway, it's a long way better than dragging Galileo off to the Inquisition, insisting on the teaching of Creationism, instead of Evolution in Science, or conversely, messing with Christmas celebrations or favourite children's stories.

Thank you for your explanations, Pal, which does shed some light on my ignorance of USA education systems. And I'm sorry if I get a bit too forthright at times.

I’m always interested in learning about other countries’ school system. When the students start school at 4 ½ do they start at Year 1 or do they have some kind of before Year 1 class? How old are the students when they start learning to read?

No, I don't think children necessarily have to be able to read already before they start school in Kindergarten, though of course some people would like to push for it. I've heard that children who start school are expected to be able to tie their own shoelaces, which I found hard to do even when I was six. We do have Pre-Schools which help prepare 4 year old children for entry in school, which they can attend for one, two or three days a week, depending on their ages and the affordability. But Pre-schools don't normally take toddlers or children before they are 3 1/2, unlike Day Care or creches.

Mothers if they are able to do so, can also sign up with a Play Group, where a group of mothers club together, say in the local scout hall, to pool resources and time, to allow their children more social activities for a morning through the week. These Play Groups can be a fantastic idea, but their main drawback is, getting past the competitiveness of some mothers within the group, who like to see themselves and their children as the pick of the bunch.

School starting age differs from one state to the other, with some children starting as late as 6 or 7. As far as I know, the cut off point for NSW is currently children who have their 5th birthday before the end of June. Learning how to read starts in Infant's school (Kindergarten, 1st and 2nd class), and Primary school is 3rd to Sixth class.

In Australia the Government has also been trying to standardise School qualifications, which finish, for some states, with the Higher School Certificate, or with the VCE in Victoria. Of course some students can also try the IB or International Baccalaureat Exam, an originally French final school qualification. I found it interesting that in the USA, our four lower grades of Secondary or High School, from Years 7 to 10, allowing school leavers to enter the workforce with a basic School Certificate, would be considered to be still part of Primary School. Some school leavers, legally able to work once they reach 15 1/2, are not interested in further Secondary Education, or University, and are more interested in getting into apprenticeships and gaining trade qualifications. Can school leavers actually do that sort of thing in USA?

At least in the town I am in the press often criticizes the college students and many people complain about the college students.

That is how "Collegiate" Universities like Oxford, in particular, developed, I heard when I went there. Oxford University is the one of the oldest surviving Universities in the world, having gained pace in 1167 when Henry II banned English students from attending the University of Paris. The famed Oxford Colleges, like Christchurch, were begun because of conflict between townspeople there and the students. Apparently Cambridge University also was founded as a result of the Oxford conflict between town and gown, and, it, too, has quite a few distinctive Colleges, though I got confused between Magdalen College in Oxford and Magdalen College in Cambridge, especially as C.S.Lewis taught at both.

Their colleges are also schools, unlike the Colleges attached to some universities here, which are purely accommodation, and distinct from the surrounding main University campus. However, in these days of cities, cars, Distance Education and Internet, isn't there less need for Universities to have College accommodation, anyway? Why, I wonder, can't students generally study from their own homes?

There was one on a prophet that God told to marry a prostitute.

That would be Hosea, the First of the 12 Minor prophets. Because their books are so short, these 12 prophets are combined in the Hebrew Scriptures into one book called 'the Twelve'. In the KJV, you will find Hosea's book between Daniel and Joel, the second of the 12 Minor Prophets. Hosea's ministry was in the Northern Kingdom of Israel, during the reign of Jeroboam II and subsequently, until the final King, Hoshea, son of Elah, was killed, maybe flayed by the Assyrians. He was an 8th century BC Israelite contemporary of the Judean prophets Isaiah, Micah, and Amos, who also prophesied in Israel, and of kings of Judah like Uzziah (the leper) and Hezekiah.

Hosea's marriage to Gomer, a prostitute, its ups and downs, even the naming of their children, was a parable of God's relationship with Israel, which under kings like Jeroboam turned away from God and worshipped Baal and other deities. Crime and social inequality had crept into the governance of Israel, and it was Hosea's job to warn the

For the time things were good for Israel, but that was only due to the lull in the fortunes of Assyria, at that time maybe still kept at bay by Ahab's earlier great victory at Qarqar. Israel needed to be reminded that the Assyrians were gathering strength, and Hosea's ministry, which according to Encyclopedia Britannica, stopped in 721, presided over the dreadful 3 year siege of Samaria, under first Tiglath-Pileser III, his son Shalmaneser V and finally Sargon II.

Gomer, herself, was a metaphor for the nation as she first bears children to Hosea (Joseph), though the last one might not have been his son. There was a divorce, but Hosea was ordered to seek Gomer out and be reconciled to her. But to get her back he had to pay money, to redeem her from some kind of slavery. Hosea's message was that God still loved Israel, and would take her back if she would only repent of her ways, but that disaster was about to happen if she did not. Hosea's ministry also presages Jesus' ministry in which he, too, compares the Church's relationship with God as being like a marriage.

MOD NOTE

Some posts in this discussion (not all) are really walking a fine line. All of the rules — including the one about keeping things family-friendly and G-rated — still apply in this thread. We have younger members here and you need to be mindful of that. If you're unsure about something, PM a moderator before posting, please. Thanks!

wagga: I see my edits crossed paths with your post.

Thanks for the detailed explanation/background of the book of Hosea. Check out my edit in the previous post.

But then I once again kept stumbling into problems. Why would God wait so long? Why would He wait if He could just essentially speak a word and make Earth as it was?

Well for everything under the Sun there is a time and place, isn't there? Besides God would never take cakes out of the oven too soon.

Time is really interesting in the Bible. Yes, there's a time for everything [Ecclesiastes 3]. God created time. At the same time, God speaks the word all the time and things just happen! Miracles in the Old Testament and miracles in the New, the incarnation, the resurrection... Events like these are instantaneous! In Genesis 1:3, "God said, Let there be light and there was light." God spoke, and bang! it was. Isn't that on a popular Christian t-shirt? God spoke the world into existence, and from there, He made the earth in 6 days and rested on the 7th. Why? Maybe to illustrate the value of work. Just like creation week, we work 6 days a week and rest 1. God made the sabbath for man. Or maybe to show His handiwork, or to show that some things take time. But creation took 6 days, not X years or millennia.

I read somewhere months ago, that if you [in general] try to protect your virginity, it’s like a wall or fence. You see how close you can get to it without breaking the barrier. You’ll do things you may later regret. But if you aim to protect your purity, then your virginity is part of the package. You’ll avoid situations where both purity and virginity may be compromised. Virginity: abstinence, don’t have sex. Purity: protect eyes, mind, heart, soul, and spirit from anything impure or unclean, including sex. Purity goes beyond the physical to also the mental, emotional, and spiritual aspects of a person.

It's been almost 20 years since last I was in high school, but I remember all too well the experience. There's some here who may argue with me about this, but teenaged boys (I cannot speak for girls) have torrents of hormones practically flooding their systems at that age. One day you're 9 and girls are gross things that play with dolls and then you're 14 and you're absolutely thunderstruck by them. And the hormones are like pouring gasoline onto what's already a raging bonfire. There is no way on Earth to control it...the river is flowing like a winter thaw coming out of Rocky Mountains and all you can do is ride the rapids and do your best to not capsize. I'm soooo glad that nonsense is over, trust me. God will keep the boat upright, just don't start hooting and hollering and waving your arms around too much or you'll fall out.

(Edit: Owing to ww's post above I excised much of what I wrote previously. I'm not sure it was bad enough to warrant it but I'm not going to take any chances, and I'd like to keep it as G-rated as possible. This is a wacky sort of topic that's difficult to maneuver through and it may help to simply sidestep it altogether and go in a different direction!)

Well for everything under the Sun there is a time and a season (Ecclesiastes), isn't there? Besides God would never take cakes out of the oven too soon.

Especially when God can "bake the cake" in 6 days like He said He did. He even listed the recipe and cooking times! He does have a slow cooker, but He didn't use it in this particular instance.

Thank you chrisTian220 and wagga for coming up with the name of the prophet. I have a terrible memory for names.

Portraits of Christ in Genesis, by Martin DeHaan [Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1966]. And in this book, DeHaan gives a few theories on these questions.

b. As a result of Eve’s transgression, fellowship between her and Adam was broken. It had to be restored. How? By Adam knowingly partaking of the forbidden fruit.
c. Eph 5 “The mystery that Paul speaks of is that Jesus Christ, the spotless Son of God, should be willing to leave His Father’s house and come into the world to save a filthy, fallen, unfaithful ‘wife,’ even by dying on the cross for her.” [pg 39]
d. “Adam also must have known that for Eve to be redeemed, it must be by a human redeemer, later referred to as the seed of the woman. . . .How could Eve bring forth a seed without a husband? . . .Since Adam could not lift Eve to his level without the Redeemer seed, he must lower himself to her level, assume her guilt, become partaker of her sin and condemnation, and then, the separation between them being removed, he could become the father of her seed.” [pp 40-41]
5. “Adam’s transgression was different from any other. We sin because we are sinners. Adam became a sinner because he deliberately chose to share in the sin of Eve. In this he was the figure (a type) of Jesus Christ.” [pg 42]

Thanks for posting the theories. I’m having a bit of a problem with these though. They seem to give Adam too much credit. It could be that I’m reading them wrong, but it seems to me that they are saying that Adam had some foreknowledge of what would happen and sinned for a noble cause. I have to sin so a Seed can come and save the world (and Eve). I never got the idea of Adam being noble. (I’m having a hard time verbalizing what I’m thinking. I hope this makes some kind of sense).

Some school leavers, legally able to work once they reach 15 1/2, are not interested in further Secondary Education, or University, and are more interested in getting into apprenticeships and gaining trade qualifications. Can school leavers actually do that sort of thing in USA?

I don’t think they can. A high school diploma is usually required for most training programs (except training at the local fast food restaurant or some kinds of factory work and some other unskilled work). However, students are able to start taking professional or college courses while still in high school. They usually take some course at the high school and then some elsewhere.

However, in these days of cities, cars, Distance Education and Internet, isn't there less need for Universities to have College accommodation, anyway? Why, I wonder, can't students generally study from their own homes?

The university I attended requires all freshmen to live on campus unless they are living with their parents. I think the idea is that they will get into less trouble that way. Many students could study from their homes but choose not to. In the US, many people think it is very important to experience the whole college life. I suppose they think it is important to for people to live away from their parents, maybe a test drive for living on one’s own? I really don’t understand it myself. I do know that I was often looked down upon for living at home. My dad thought my sister and I should to go away to school, but my mom disagreed. She’d heard stories about what it was like when my dad was away at college (I think he drank a bit too much) (he went to a Christian college by the way) and she didn’t want us in a similar situation (not that she thought either one of us would get into trouble). Not to mention the fact that it is cheaper to live at home. Neither my sister nor I saw the point in going away to college when there is a perfectly good college six blocks away.

In the US, many people think it is very important to experience the whole college life.

Whereas in Australia the age of majority is 18 years of age. If students plan to study there is almost government pressure to keep them at home, to get them to attend the nearest schools, colleges and universities to save on transport, accommodation etc. Regional universities have to have colleges none the less, but I've heard that staying there can be a very lonely experience, and students are soon glad to move out to flat with friends or board in subsidised Student-Union lodgings or with someone they or their family knows. You will experience the whole college life there, all right. Nobody to do your washing for you. hehe!

My daughter stayed at home, like most students here, since most of her uni campuses were easily accessible, she didn't want to be stuck with a large debt for the rest of her working life, because of the HECS, and that way she got use of a car as needed. Also, like other classmates who went to Uni, she went part time to pay her way, being grateful for shifts at one of those unskilled jobs as checkout chick. Around this way, students often do find work before they finish qualifications.

I don’t think they can. A high school diploma is usually required for most training programs

Here the HSC can include basic training in different trades and careers, including nursing. These courses are often delivered at nearby TAFE colleges, in co-operation with high schools. Successful completion of these courses can give credit for entry into higher grade TAFE courses in those fields, and in turn successful completion in the highest TAFE courses can give credit into related university courses. Is a high school diploma then the equivalent of an HSC, the ranking of which determines one's ability to get into university?

Especially when God can "bake the cake" in 6 days like He said He did. He even listed the recipe and cooking times! He does have a slow cooker, but He didn't use it in this particular instance.

Or maybe that was just Adam's impression as he sat around enjoying himself at the feast, being waited on so lavishly. Now you and I know that it takes eons to thaw that turkey, ages to assemble the ingredients and that the six hours, days, or whatever the recipe laughingly said it would cook in was vastly inadequate. And so for the cook in the kitchen, whatever Adam likes to say about the time, it dragged like an eternity in a heat wave.

Yeah right. Say it took 6 days as much , but I still beg to differ. I only hope humans don't do anything silly to cook Creation's goose in the trice it took God to turn the light on.

220ChrisTian, do enjoy your course! Whilst cleaning out Methuselah's antediluvian textbooks from the Assurbanipal library, I came across this interesting book: John Romer's Testament: the Bible and history. It is a really good read, especially as it marries up the Bible accounts, comparing the archaeological records found in Nineveh etc. If you can get a copy of it, it is a very good read.

Or maybe that was just Adam's impression as he sat around enjoying himself at the feast, being waited on so lavishly. Now you and I know that it takes eons to thaw that turkey, ages to assemble the ingredients and that the six hours, days, or whatever the recipe laughingly said it would cook in was vastly inadequate. And so for the cook in the kitchen, whatever Adam likes to say about the time, it dragged like an eternity in a heat wave.

Yes, but according to the Cookbook recipe it sort of went like this.

1. God turns on a flashlight in the area which will be the Kitchen, which prior to this was "formless and void". He does this in oh...about 24 hours.

2. God separates the expanse, the greater of which He uses to create the Kitchen, and the lesser the oven and basting pan. Again, it took all morning and evening to get this job done.

3. God adds some meat to the basting pan and puts some starch, roux, and water in there. He calls the non-wet part the "Roast" while He calls the wet parts "Gravy". Keeping up so far? God also produces some herbs to season the roast with.

4. While the Roast is cooking God installs some windows, skylights, and electrical lights, along with their various switches in the Kitchen. He's a Master Electrician and Handyman and again pulls this off in a single day. Eat your heart out, Bob Vila!

5. The meat's good and tender now and almost done and the gravy's thick, but it needs that extra little "kick". God adds in vegetables like potatoes and carrots, each according to their kind. There's a bunch in there. All morning and evening again. You know how potatoes take a little extra time though.

6. The Roast is going really good here but the problem is there's no one to eat it! God produces Man and breathes into him a Hearty Appetite. He orders man that he can have whatever there is of the Roast but to ignore that jar of mayonaise over on the countertop, because practically everyone knows Mayonaisse is evil .

7. God takes a well deserved Day of Rest. And can you blame Him? He's been pretty busy this week, what with all the building, electrical work, lighting, making seasoning, and finally creating someone to eat His cooking. The Great Chef says that Day 7 is a "day off".

Sigh...I love food.

Great creation post, Shadowlander! You're really clever! By the way, interesting teenage years. Didn't know that. Glad you edited it [since I read the unedited one via email].

Or maybe that was just Adam's impression as he sat around enjoying himself at the feast, being waited on so lavishly. Now you and I know that it takes eons to thaw that turkey, ages to assemble the ingredients and that the six hours, days, or whatever the recipe laughingly said it would cook in was vastly inadequate. And so for the cook in the kitchen, whatever Adam likes to say about the time, it dragged like an eternity in a heat wave.

Yeah right. Say it took 6 days as much , but I still beg to differ. I only hope humans don't do anything silly to cook Creation's goose in the trice it took God to turn the light on.

Note what I underlined. Adam didn't say it took 6 days. God told Moses it took 6 days. We humans have finite minds and understanding. If God says it took 6 days, it took 6 days. Are you doubting God's Word? You don't think God can do the instantaneous? That's denying, or limiting, His power and ability. God is omnipotent. He can do anything! God created time. He is therefore outside time. He made the sun stand still. He made a sundial go backward. He turned water into wine. In all these events, God overrode time! He sped things up and slowed things down! Miracle: breaking various scientific laws. God says X and X happens! It's the power of the spoken word.

Isaiah 46 "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure." Compare that with these verses: Ecclesiastes 1:9-11, 3:15; Isaiah 41:4, 22, 48:3. What's the point? The history of the world is in Genesis.

I'll check out the book suggestion. Thanks, wagga.

I’m having a bit of a problem with these though. They seem to give Adam too much credit. It could be that I’m reading them wrong, but it seems to me that they are saying that Adam had some foreknowledge of what would happen and sinned for a noble cause. I have to sin so a Seed can come and save the world (and Eve). I never got the idea of Adam being noble.

I had the same problem. I also thought the author gave Adam a little too much credit for knowing the future when maybe he didn't. Genesis 3:15 came after they ate the fruit. But still, it was interesting! Something to think about.

EDIT: I read this online today and thought I'd share it. Charles Spurgeon, Spiritual warfare in a believer's life:

How are we to handle this sword of 'It is written'? First, with deepest reverence. Let every word that God has spoken be law and gospel to you. Never trifle with it; never try to evade its force or change its meaning. God speaks to you in this book as much as if he came to the top of Sinai and lifted up his voice with thunder.

I like to open the Bible and pray, 'Lord God, let the words leap off the page into my soul; make them vivid, powerful, and fresh to my heart.'"

Our Lord Himself felt the power of the Word. It was not so much the devil who felt the power of 'It is written" as Christ Himself. The manhood of Christ felt an awe of the Word of God, and so the Word became a power to Christ. To trifle with Scripture is to deprive yourself of its aid. Reverence it, and look up to God with devout gratitude for having given it to you.