Princess Rosario wrote:

What is happening in the next year? Just curious.

So far as I know no major religious figure has endorsed 2010 as a year of calamity for Westerners.

(What's the saying, again? "Signs of the times" is when it happens to someone else, and "persecution" is when it happens to you." Sigh.)

The rapturist televangelist Jack Van Impe was promoting 2012 as Rapture Time back when 2007 was still an option. (2012 + 7 years dispensationalist tribulation = Jesus returns 2019.) Now a lot of people want to be a 2012. So JVI was 2012 when 2012 wasn't cool.

Either Sky & Telescope magazine or Astronomy magazine (November 2009 issue) has a cover story on 2012 which they call a debunker's guide.

Scientists give a possible doomsday date as 2020, when an asteroid named Aphosis is supposed to pass so close to the earth that they don't know if it will pass us or fall in.

All of this is interesting on an academic level, but what happens if a person is hit by the Hypothetical Bus tomorrow?

In many parts of the world, peoples' lives are dangerous right now. The apostle Paul once took up a collection among churches that were better off to aid the disaster victims in Judaea. That's closer to where Westerners are. Let us make a difference while we can.

My guess is that since religious figures aren't lining up behind 2010, it probably has political overtones and is therefore a banned topic on NarniaWeb. But I don't know.

[PS: Who centered the page? I certainly didn't. I wonder why that bleeds over into following posts.]

There's also the Harold Camping theory that the end of the world is in 2011. Darn, the world's gonna end before I graduate.

In many parts of the world, peoples' lives are dangerous right now. The apostle Paul once took up a collection among churches that were better off to aid the disaster victims in Judaea. That's closer to where Westerners are. Let us make a difference while we can.

That's an excellent point! Westerners can also learn more, and help through, those agencies which support the persecuted church (Voice of the Martyrs and Open Doors being just two).

Did someone say 2012? Where's my soapbox?

History is filled with unfulfilled end of the world claims. Certainly it's going to end sometime, but I submit that predicting an exact date isn't our job (Matthew 24:36). I agree that we should certainly be ready and live our lives to glorify God; isn't that what it's really about?

But the upcoming 2012 brings out the geek in me.

The "astronomy" behind the 2012 prediction may sound intimidating but is pretty easily debunked (for example, see a detailed discussion here).

The article The Old Maid mentions (in the November 2009 Sky & Telescope) - which I highly recommend reading - includes some background information on the relatively recent popularity of the Mayan 2012 date and discussion on whether the Mayans themselves considered this date the end of the world.

It then covers other "astronomical" end-date predictions including May 5, 2000 and the infamous "Jupiter effect" of March 1982 (which I well remember! ) and concludes with some astronomical information similar to that in the article I linked above.

Apophis is another interesting item; its orbital resonance brings it close to the earth on occasion. Its 2029 close approach, referenced by TOM, should be impressive, at least for astronomers, but the latest predications indicate it'll miss us. (Incidentally, that pass comes on Friday the 13th ). However, there's some concern that such a close approach to earth's comparatively strong gravity may push it through the "keyhole" - that tiny opening that will cause it to hit us on its next passage, in 2036.

However, a brand-new NASA press release shows that 2036 should be a safe passage too - depending precisely on what happens with earth's gravity in the 2029 pass. But then there's a close approach in 2068! And on it goes....

What is happening in the next year? Just curious.

I wasn't referring to the "end of the world." I don't know when Jesus will return. I know it's VERY SOON, that's all. But what's gonna happen [in the works] in the next 6 mos-2 years doesn't look good. Look up the following topics online: Real ID Act, biometrics, VeriChip, swine flu vaccine [= eugenics, has a microchip in it, and if mandated you may go to a "camp" of sorts if you don't comply], death of the Internet [next 3-5 years]. See what you find...

He convicted us that even though we paid lip service to the authority and sufficiency of Scripture, we didn't really live that out because we always had to add something to it, some feeling, some hype, some emotion, some experience. And you can't live your Christian life on that emotional roller coaster.

The thing that is so dangerous about charismatic practice is that it is like a drug; you always need a higher and more outrageous dosage as you become slowly immune. That's why people in that movement start barking like dogs, claiming that it signifies their doglike devotion to Christ; why they foam at the mouth and lie on the floor kicking the wall, in "birth pains" over what Christ is supposedly doing in them; why they get "slain in the Spirit" and "drunk on the Spirit" and behave in ways that utterly profane the lovely name of Him to whom we belong.

I have no problem with speaking in tongues. I know what it is to be slain in the Spirit, drunk on the Spirit, what have you. It's biblical. But there are counterfeits. Demons can mimic spiritual gifts and deceive. I've seen it happen. That means we must be on our guard and have spiritual discernment. Just because demons can speak in tongues doesn't mean we should consider speaking in tongues "not of God." It is of God. But it means discerning between true and false. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. Why do I say this? Because nothing about "barking like dogs, claiming that it signifies their doglike devotion to Christ; why they foam at the mouth and lie on the floor kicking the wall, in 'birth pains' over what Christ is supposedly doing in them" is even remotely Christian. It's demonic. Many charismatics and Pentecostals do not practice what you've just described. I've never even witnessed it. But some members of my family [parents, grandparents] have and they knew it was not of God. They put the persons out of the church. Our church practices aren't a roller coaster either. But one difference between charismatics and Pentecostals is that the former generally use praise choruses while the latter have a history of using hymnals, with solidly biblical lyrics. The Spirit works and speaks through the Word. This is how we avoid emotion and hype. If you think such practices are normal among charismatics and Pentecostals, I feel very sorry for you. I pray God shows you true Pentecostalism, not false.

220, just because bad things have been happening or might be going to happen doesn’t mean that the world will end and Jesus will come back now. Look at all the terrible things that have happened in history: Hitler’s attempted genocide, the plagues of the Middle Ages, shoot, even the Flood! None of these were followed by The end of the world.
When Jesus said that He would come back like a thief in the night and that God alone knows when this will happen, I’m inclined to believe that means that literally no one else can know when that is to happen.
In the parable about the master going on a long journey, note that the servants who were praised and rewarded were those who looked to the business of his house. We are not told that they spent the majority of their time standing at the gate watching for his return at the expense of what had been given into their care.

On the Abrahamic Promise,
My family used to be Messianic; in other words we were firmly of the opinion that Israel was still God’s chosen people and that the such things as Kosher eating, and all the feasts of the Jews still ought to be kept. Now I am (along with the rest of my family) Presbyterian and of the belief that the Church has succeeded Israel as the Covenant people. There were two passages in Scripture especially instrumental in this change of belief. One was Matthew 21:33; Jesus is talking to the leaders of the Jewish people when this is said:

“Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it.”

Second is Matthew 27

“Pilate took water and washed his hands saying before the multitude, saying ‘I am innocent of the blood of this just Person. You see to it.’
And all the people answered and said ‘His blood be on us and on our children.’”

Why would God’s chosen people still be the ones who committed the ultimate rejection of His Son, their Messiah, and to this day continue to reject Him?

The thing to watch out for in Abrahamic promise (besides everything, that is) is a belief that the Jewish people are under some kind of curse because of the deeds of their ancestors in Jesus' day. People used this belief to excuse horrible evils against the Jewish people.

Preterists believe that even the words "upon us and on our children" were fulfilled in the year 70. Anyone who participated in the Crucifixion, whether by action or omission, died in that extermination. Thus regardless of the status of blessings, their descendents are under no curse. If they are not better off than Gentiles, they are not worse off either. David Currie's excellent Catholic book Rapture: the end-times error that leaves the Bible behind walks the reader through the argument using Biblical material, translation, contemporary histories, and witnesses. The book itself is massive (I've said it could hold open a door) but is quite readable.

Now, since the topic came up of technologies, maybe this group would be interested in a long-debated example in the Left Behind novels, where tech and faith meet (and clash).

A fictional teenager named Chang gets saved. In the novels, saved people get a seal on their forehead that other believers can see. This starts around book 4. It's said to look like a 3-D cross. Nonbelievers cannot see this seal. Chang's father chooses the evil Mark (a sort of barcode tattoo) and makes the same choice for his son. Chang refuses. They knock him down and sit on him and apply the Mark. Chang now has two loyalty tags on his face. The villains can see only their own Mark. Chang's loyalties don't change. He continues to serve the Judah-ite resistance. The resistance tells him to stay in place in the evildoers' secret lair so that he can spy. In Volume 11 Chang is finally taken out of the evil lair and brought to the saved Jewish elders. He is humiliated to have the Mark on his head, even though it was forced upon him. He begs the elders to pray that God will remove this evil Mark of forever-doom. The elders agree on the condition that he accept the result, even if the result is God choosing the answer No. Chang agrees, then bursts into tears. The Jewish elders pray over him. Chang collapses. By a miracle, Chang revives with a Mark-free forehead. God has removed the Mark of the Beast.

Readers were very concerned by this scenario. They just didn't know how it could be Biblical. The author Jenkins reassured them that since Chang belonged to God first, the forced Mark didn't count. God could only see the seal.

Do you agree?

...

BTW, many non-rapturists, including Currie and many Protestants, argue that the Seal is inward, written on our hearts per Jeremiah 31:34 and the like. They argue that asking for a visible seal is like thinking God will write His law on our hearts with a ball-point pen. But one thing rapturists and nonrapturists agree on is that the Seal would have to be distributed first, before any Marking could begin. Sort of. They also argue timeline, dispensations, and so forth.

On the Abrahamic Promise,
My family used to be Messianic; in other words we were firmly of the opinion that Israel was still God’s chosen people and that the such things as Kosher eating, and all the feasts of the Jews still ought to be kept. Now I am (along with the rest of my family) Presbyterian and of the belief that the Church has succeeded Israel as the Covenant people.

I do not like, nor have I ever liked Replacement Theology. I want you to please bear in mind that God never, ever, ever, ever breaks any of His promises. There are no conditions, no expiration dates, and no statute of limitations. God made a covenant between He and Abraham and that pact is in place until the world ends and God's word on any promise is solid and unbreakable. He has, from time to time, sent judgments on His people, the Jews, (captivity in Babylon, dispersal from Israel, etc) but even in that His people remained His people, the "apple of His eye", and remain so to this day.

I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don't you know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he appealed to God against Israel: "Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me"? And what was God's answer to him? "I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal." So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

And further in verses 28 and 29...

As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable.(emphasis mine)

Continuing....

Why would God’s chosen people still be the ones who committed the ultimate rejection of His Son, their Messiah, and to this day continue to reject Him?

That's the real meat of the question, isn't it? But Paul answers this too:

What then? What Israel sought so earnestly it did not obtain, but the elect did. The others were hardened, as it is written:
"God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes so that they could not see
and ears so that they could not hear,
to this very day." And David says:
"May their table become a snare and a trap,
a stumbling block and a retribution for them.
May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see,
and their backs be bent forever."

The Jewish people, God's Chosen People, are experiencing a hardening of their hearts right now which makes them blind to Christ, and have been for some time. There are of course Messianic Jews but they are perpetually few in number, however this digresses from the main point, that being that the Jews covenant with God is still very much in place. God has shut their eyes to the Truth and some even attack Christianity and are among Christianity's most zealous opponents (though with the tumultuous history that Christianity has with Judaism, filled with pogroms and killings, can you really blame them?). But at an appointed time God will open their eyes and they will see that Christ is indeed the promised Messiah. There is a verse that describes this as Christ returns and Israel gazes on Him with open eyes and realizes the full extent of their mistake and weeps for Him as they would for a son. I have seen it several times but cannot recall where it is.

But if even this is not enough to convince you, take some time to answer the following questions:

- Explain how in 1947 Israel, armed with a hodge podge of castoff military equipment, leftover vehicles and tanks, and totally unreliable airplanes (the Avia S-199 comes immediately to mind) they managed to not only hold at bay the forces of hostile Arab neighbors (each with a modernized military, by the way), but were able to actually gain some territory?

- Explain why nations throughout history which have treated the Jewish people poorly (Spain, Germany, etc.) saw significant reduction in their power?

- Explain why those countries who befriended the Jewish state and harbored Jews in safety prosper even in times of global economic crises?

- Explain why Israel itself is a prosperous land and is surrounded by nations who yearn for nothing more than its destruction and who themselves are mired in squalor and wretched conditions? Note also that the tiny Kingdom of Jordan has been friends with Israel (even if it has been tenuous in the past) and is better off than many of its neighbors. Chance?

- Why has Israel's Air Force, considered to be among the most elite in the world not lost a single aircraft in at last 20 years? One could chalk it up to superior training but the Arab nations possess comparable aircraft and train just as vigorously. It brings the whole "God is my Copilot" concept to a whole new level.

- In fact explain Israel's continued existence. Period. Statistically they should have been wiped off the map in 1948. If that didn't do it than the 1967 "Six Day War" most definitely should have done the job. I can think of no reason, outside of God's direct intervention, to explain why Israel is still there and is flourishing.

Replacement Theology is a very bad concept and is directly refuted in the verses I listed above. The Jewish people's eyes are closed to Christ right now but someday they will be opened. And make no mistake, they are still very much God's Chosen People from antiquity. Thank God everyday that they are among you and bless them (even if they may be hostile to your beliefs) because God never forgets and will bless you as a result.

For brevity I have omitted several points which I could also add to the list, but I think you get the point.

First off, I should like to apologize if I came across as harsh or arrogant to those who believe differently than me. I am exhausted and maybe I should have waited until morning to post something with the potential to be so, um, controversial? Any rate, sorry if I gave offense. That was not my intention in the slightest.
And 2nd, I didn’t mean to suggest that Israel is under some kind of curse. I only meant to outline why I believe that the Jews, as a nation (not as individuals), are no longer God’s covenant people. Ugh, I appear to be having difficulty expressing myself today!

Shadowlander, I'm working on responding to your points. I'm trying to be clearer, so it might take me a bit. Also, I'm trying to avoid politics, which is getting a bit difficult. Would you mind if I PMed you should it prove to be impossible?

I wasn't referring to the "end of the world." I don't know when Jesus will return. I know it's VERY SOON, that's all. But what's gonna happen [in the works] in the next 6 mos-2 years doesn't look good. Look up the following topics online: Real ID Act, biometrics, VeriChip, swine flu vaccine [= eugenics, has a microchip in it, and if mandated you may go to a "camp" of sorts if you don't comply], death of the Internet [next 3-5 years]. See what you find...

Just FYI and FWIW...

At my age I have lived through about 347 reports of these sorts, maybe more. All of them seemed very real, very near, and very much what scripture describes. Yet none of them have been. It only took hearing of a few and having them come to nothing AND noticing that those who had the Old Testament scriptures memorized still missed recognizing Jesus when He came to realize that what scripture describes will probably not look anything like we think it will. As a result, I no longer pay attention to them.

Ain't skeered.

I'd rather spend my time knowing the Lord and doing the job He gave us. I think I can trust Him to take care of me and mine in a way that will ultimately garner Him the most glory. I'll be paying diligent attention to making sure my spiritual armor is well taken care of so that in the evil day I will stand.

Christians who are tempted to read grocery store rags and/or listen to the blatherings of those who have discovered that their donations go up if they can frighten the gullible into believing they've done them a favor by warning them the end is near will find themselves better served by doing the same.

The Lord has given us a job, a commission, and rather than biting our nails and wringing our hands about what may happen to Christians as the end nears, we ought to be so busy doing that job that we don't even notice when they light the faggots of dry wood under our feet or open the door of the lion's cage as we stand in the arena preaching to the crowd...

Just sayin'.

mm

Exactly, MM! My great-grandmother was absolutely certain that Jesus would return during her lifetime, because there were so many awful things happening in the world. But He didn't. Even the disciples thought Jesus would return during their lifetimes!

While there are many bad things going on in our messed-up planet, I strongly dislike it when people use the whole "gloom and doom" method of conversion. People have been predicting horrible apocalypse for centuries, and it hasn't happened yet. It's being misleading...it makes people think that they have to repent just to save themselves from some awful cataclysm.

That doesn't mean I don't care about witnessing, or living for Christ - it just means that I'm not worried about "the end of the world" and such things.

And amen to that, Princess. Frankly, Hell is scary enough a fate, enough to make the end-of-the-world stuff seem like a reprieve at Disney World. Why do many Christians (I say this generically, not about anyone here specifically) emphasize conspiracy-apocalypse ideas, which are at their very best debatable, and thereby bypass something Christians can truly agree about: the fair fate of sinners in the hands of an angry God?

Two weeks ago I spoke with a man whom I know is not a Christian. He got burned out on the whole thing years after being excited about Hal Lindsey's The Late Great Planet Earth. Now, I am not saying Lindsey failed to teach the Gospel. Clear Gospel presentations are sometimes ignored just like unclear presentations are. But in this case, my acquaintance didn't see Russia turn into Gog or its helicopters somehow assume the identity of the demon locusts from Revelation 9, so in effect he dismissed the whole Gospel of Christ coming to save sinners. (Instead, in his very original view, Christ was a Great Moral Teacher, etc.)

It's a sort of reverse chronological snobbery to think that Things Were Never as Bad Then as They Are Now. Maybe that's true, but Christ's and the apostles' warnings to hang in there during persecutions, false teachings, moral degradation and such, were just as relevant to their original readers as they were to us. A society that has surface "Christian values" but no real repentance and faith in the Savior can be just as depraved, in God's sight, as more-openly rebellious society.

Again, at the very least, we ought not put nearly as much stock in the too-oft-recurring conspiracy stuff, as if that was the scariest fate we can find, as we do in the reality of future Hell for rebels against Christ.

(Was up too late and unable to sleep; now heads back to bed ...)

I tend to enjoy a good talk about the end times. I myself have good reason to suspect that they may come within my lifetime, but I don't know that for sure. The signs are there. Wars, rumors of wars, heading towards one-world government, technology for the Mark of the Beast...the list goes on. I have good reason to believe that the Mark will come in the form of a microchip implant. But before modern technology, people thought it might be a tatoo or something like that. As for the one-world government, for the first 500 years after Christ, the world was in a one-world government: Rome.

MM gave what is truly the simplest approach and the approach that God would desire us to take. I believe it was St. Francis of Assasi (sp?) who said this: He was out hoeing his garden and a guy came up to him and asked if he knew he would die that day if there was anything he would do differently. St. Francis said he would simply continue hoeing his garden. We should have a similar approach to the coming of Christ. We should continue living our lives as we normally would. Of course, living our lives normally, in a Christian context, is being wise as serpents and innocent as doves. It is preaching the Gospel where the opportunity presents itself. It is living a righteous and holy lifestyle. I'm not talking about perfection, but striving towards a Godly life.

Personally, I am well aware that the end times are near. Do I worry about what will happen to me? No. Am I concerned about whether I will refuse to deny Christ in exchange for my life? No. I've already had my faith shaken. I was challenged to the point where any further, I may have broken. I was only spared the physical torment that would go with the picture in a time of persecution. That experience felt like a test, so it would not suprise me if I go through something like that again sometime down the road. I passed my test with flying colors. Not that I was able to drive out the demon that was attacking me (and yes it was a demon), but I was able to stand firm in my faith. If I am going to endure through tribulation, I know God is going to carry me through until either the tribulation passes or I pass. But it may not come to me. In either case, I will continue to live my life as I have been doing. I am not going to drop out of college because a degree won't mean anything if Jesus returns in 2012. I am not going to leave my book aside because it might not have any affect for the Kingdom if the end times hit in 3 years. I am going to live my life as though it won't come for 100 years, while at the same time being watchful as though it will come this year.

First off, I should like to apologize if I came across as harsh or arrogant to those who believe differently than me. I am exhausted and maybe I should have waited until morning to post something with the potential to be so, um, controversial? Any rate, sorry if I gave offense. That was not my intention in the slightest.
And 2nd, I didn’t mean to suggest that Israel is under some kind of curse. I only meant to outline why I believe that the Jews, as a nation (not as individuals), are no longer God’s covenant people. Ugh, I appear to be having difficulty expressing myself today!

I'm sorry if my post came out as a little harsh. But admittedly this is something I feel very strongly about, so when in life I come across anything with even the scent of Replacement Theology I tend to get a little aggressive with my arugments.

Shadowlander, I'm working on responding to your points. I'm trying to be clearer, so it might take me a bit. Also, I'm trying to avoid politics, which is getting a bit difficult. Would you mind if I PMed you should it prove to be impossible?

That is perfectly fine, and I agree, politics = bad here. While we haven't really crossed into that P word it could go that route if we continued on our present course, so by all means PM me.

I tend to enjoy a good talk about the end times. I myself have good reason to suspect that they may come within my lifetime, but I don't know that for sure.

I feel the same way exactly. But like you and others are saying it's best to continue on with life and when it happens it happens. We can see the signs around us but there's nothing anywhere near substantial enough to base anything remotely like a timeline on it. Not even Christ knows when the hour of His return will take place, and so moving along as before is probably the best route to take.

You guys are likely wondering what I'm doing up at 7:00 but I just had a scary dream that I need to share...

I and my sister went with a neighboring church on a mission trip to some island off the coast of Alaska. I don't remember the trip but when we got there we were teaching some kids there to play soccer when the sun grew bigger and bigger till it split in three, all the sudden the whole galaxy showed up over head and stayed there for hours and we all just sat around watching it. Then we noticed it started falling apart and then all went black; when I woke up we were in a small room that had tables and a type of platform with a podium. Suddenly God appeared... he sure didn't look like the God we imaged though... He was a black man and had little tentacles sticking out of his chin then I woke up.

Suddenly I feel like I shall never be the same… like this had been a life changing moment and that this came from God himself, in disguise (well hey he couldn’t show me himself in the dream otherwise I would have no surprise latter on) Any thoughts?

Good morning, Narnianerd! After my late night last night I’ll be headed back to bed myself, but a few quick thoughts ...

1. Do you know the game “Rock, Paper, Scissors”? Try playing that, but instead change the “Dream/Vision, Christian Teaching, Bible.” Now Christian Teaching may win over Dream/Vision, just like Paper covers Rock. But Bible always wins, over both other things. With that in mind ...

2. Compare the version of “God” you saw to the God of the Bible. Dream/Vision vs. Bible — Bible wins. God is spirit, though always described with masculine terms, and it’s silly (if not blasphemy) for people to get into arguments about whether He is “black” or “white.”

3. The apostles never talked about Christians listening to dreams for new information; they only said believers must pay attention to the Gospel and Biblical teaching, and live in the light of specifically revealed. Dreams/Visions recorded in the Bible and sent by God, either in the Old Testament or in Acts, always had a specific purpose, and it never contradicted Scripture.

4. Your dream’s portrayal of God contradicted Scripture.

5. Based on that, I would suggest not worrying about it either way, buddy! God did not specifically send that dream — though He is sovereign in all things, special revelation from dreams is not a standard practice for direct revelation from Him, and believers are meant to get their main teaching about Him from the Word. I wouldn’t worry about having a strange dream that contradicted the Bible, either. What did you eat the previous night?

There’s a lot of Disaster Fervor about, particularly because of all the 2012 hoopla. A new movie (by the folks who made Independence Day and The Day After Tomorrow) will show all kinds of apocalyptic events, made even scarier by special-effects advances and Blue-Ray resolution. And of course, uniquely American Christian end-times beliefs will begin resurging (perhaps based on political reasons I can’t get into here).

Remember, according to the Bible, we have been living in the “end times” ever since the dawn of the Church Age. If we act as if only we have been living in the end times, then we are forced to conclude that the apostles who wrote multiple letters acting as if they were, too, were misguided.

A few months ago I had a couple of nightmarish apocalypse-style dreams as well. I forget one, but the other was like a sci-fi epic in which the planet Earth had been broken apart by some cataclysm, and I was living with others aboard a spacecraft above the shattered remains, though we could go down to several shielded domes on the surface(s) with air. Scary stuff. But it was based on both seeing a movie trailer for the non-Christian apocalypse movie, and probably from reading The Two Towers, out loud and in very dramatic tones, with my wife, before bed. God wasn’t speaking to me there. Dreams have natural explanations.

There’s already so much to talk about in the thread, so I’d rather not go much into the issue of whether God communicates in dreams and visions today. What must be noted, again, is that not everything described in Scripture about certain people is prescribed in Scripture — such as fantastic healings, special revelation (i.e. Peter’s vision of the sheet and unclean creatures), or yes, even tongues-speaking.

Christians can disagree over some things, but what must be agreed by all is that the Bible should take precedence over all spiritual gifts or experiences, whether real or imagined or merely mistaken.

When I mention this, it’s very likely Fencer is the only one who’ll answer in the affirmative: has anyone ever read The Visitation by Frank Peretti? My wife and I have been reading this one aloud in recent days.

The Visitation is Peretti’s last great novel, and his greatest — perhaps the best Christian novel in recent decades. Though it encompasses many themes, the strongest is his often comical but mostly poignant portrayal of the main character’s struggle to separate Jesus from the trappings of church and the misleading nature of emotions- and “signs”-based Christianity, the kind that has often been discussed here. While taking plot-relevant, chapter-length flashbacks to the main character’s past, Peretti also crafts a fascinating, often frightening, portrayal of what happens in a small town, especially to its more Christian/charismatic members, when “Jesus” arrives in the flesh ...

Let me be more specific: Fencer, if you haven’t read this one (I forget if we’ve discussed it before), then you need to; and yes, it’s better and deeper than the Darkness books. WiseWoman, with your unique story, you will likely love the novel (though it could be argued Peretti allows Satan too much power, yet of course it’s-just-a-story). And The Old Maid, I know this will sound startling coming from me, but this novel is even better than the Left Behind series.