Well, with all this talk of Mansfield Park, I just had to go ahead and get it and start reading it (did you know you could get Jane Austen works for free on a Kindle?). It's already turning out to be a great read, I'd say. Now, granted, I did already do some research on the book, so I'm a fair amount spoiled as to the general proceedings of the book already (I know, I'm so horrible, aren't I? ).

As for Fanny's passivity, the book does explicitly say "besides her faults of timidity (and ignorance)", so I think it's pretty clear that Fanny isn't exactly ideal. At the same time, though, she does come around to grow out of it, and I'm sure that will be a joy to watch.

One thing is that, apparently, Austen wrote MP after she felt that her previous work, Pride and Prejudice, was too light-hearted, and wanted to do something darker and more serious. In this way, yes, Fanny is very different from her other more headstrong heroines, particularly in the fact that she suffered a lot more, which is arguably the reason behind her passivity (though not necessarily excusing it).

Unfortunately, from what I've read, it seems that a good number of readers like to take hold of their first impressions of a character, perhaps forgetting that in many good stories, characters undergo this process called "character development" that changes how they are, for better or for worse. As such, there seems to be a lot of people who would rather that (incoming spoilers!)

I think we've been a bit spoiled with all the headstrong females in fiction these days. Thus, any female who isn't completely revolutionary is automatically seen as "boring" or worse, "chauvinistic". And while there's nothing wrong with headstrong female main characters, I think it's fine to have a more passive character now and then, just to mix things up a little as well as expand the number of readers who can relate to her; after all, not everyone can be as strong-willed as Elizabeth Bennet.

Well, that's my two cents for now. I'll likely have more comments as I read more into the novel proper.

As for what I've read so far, I really like it. I had to laugh at Sir Bertram's worries over "cousins in love" if he adopts Fanny (in a time where such a thing was neither uncommon nor taboo), and Mrs. Norris's insistence that, if she is raised alongside her male cousins like brother and sister, that will surely keep that from happening. (We'll just see how well that works out...)

Poor Fanny, though... she can't even expect a visit from her beloved brother without her relatives making her feel like she's a failure. It's almost no wonder she hardly tries to raise her voice, what with how generally badly anyone not named Edmund treats her...

Well, onwards I shall read, although I also have to read Emma by the same author... will the Austen madness never end?

Stardf: I really enjoyed your post on your thoughts about Mansfield Park, it's always really nice to find another person who thinks along the same lines as oneself, especially in regards to Fanny and her personality.

I think we've been a bit spoiled with all the headstrong females in fiction these days. Thus, any female who isn't completely revolutionary is automatically seen as "boring" or worse, "chauvinistic". And while there's nothing wrong with headstrong female main characters, I think it's fine to have a more passive character now and then, just to mix things up a little as well as expand the number of readers who can relate to her; after all, not everyone can be as strong-willed as Elizabeth Bennet.

Exactly so! I personally can relate much more to Fanny Price (and Anne Elliott, who is much the same personality I believe as Fanny, although a little different here and there) than Elizabeth Bennet. While I enjoy the latter, it's characters like Fanny Price that I really really like. I think many of Dickens' main heroines are also to be thought "boring", as they appear to be "passive", "weak", etc, to some that are used to the more vocally and outgoingly strong characters. (I don't believe that characters like Fanny Price are weak per se, they are strong, but internally so. Their strength is mainly kept hidden, but it is nonetheless real, and there, and will come through in the end and in times of struggle. )

The majority of conversation of books seems to centre around romance and historical fiction but going from that to Stephen King books and back to Jane Austen works is just hilarious!

Yay! I'm so glad someone else in this thread loves Frances Hardinge's books and has read her newest, Kate. I was especially excited to see that Megan Whalen Turner gave The Lost Conspiracy a great review. I think I posted the link to it several pages back. I've also read The Demon's Lexicon and really disliked it, mainly because I found the main character to be unbearably obnoxious. And it reminded me too much of a weird Supernatural fanfic.

I think you may have been referring to me. At any rate, I also saw her review and it made me glad and even more determined to find TLC. Nick in TDL was pretty obnoxious, and I liked nearly everyone else in the book better. The second book is going to be narrated from Mae's perspective, so that makes me think I might like it more?? Maybe? I did like her writing style and humor, but that could be because I'm used to her blog. I've never seen/am not at all familiar with Supernatural, but I've heard that comment made before about her book.

(I usually end up stifling giggles every time I read one of her adventures. If you say her book is just like that, I am doomed... resistance will be futile. )

I do that too! Especially when I read her Star Trek and Merlin parodies. The book's not just like that, although there are moments where you can see her sense of humor shining in. Do you read the short story bits she posts? If so, it's more that style.

You should definitely read North and South though; it’s an excellent story, a bit like an Austen but not as classy or something. I loved it –it’s a tad Cinderella-esque but with more depth; especially when dealing with the whole step-mother/daughter relationship. EDIT: Oops, I've run Wives and Daughters into there. N&S was actually very melancholy and lovely and sad.

I was thinking about reading Wives & Daughters too, since I have easier access to that than N&S. I heard W&D was unfinished though, is that correct and if so, does it end leaving pieces of the story incomplete? I've never read an unfinished book before, so I was wondering how it compares to normal books.

heard W&D was unfinished though, is that correct and if so, does it end leaving pieces of the story incomplete?

That is correct. I don't remember exactly how they worked it in the copy I read, but the ending was tidy enough for me. And I loved the rest of the story! Highly recommended.

I think I haven't read most/many of the short stories--I try to avoid spoilers "just in case".

It's been over a week (Probably two) since I was on this topic last, so things have really mounted up! After scanning the pages, I've got a couple comments:

Malkah, thank you for noticing my inquiry. I'll keep your suggestions in mind!
StudyMate, I read The Coral Island, too, about a year and a half ago. I liked it.

Meltintalle - *reads your comment on Dandelion Fire* Wait, wait, wait! Are you meaning that a character in that book rivals Faramir in LotR, or this someone else named Faramir? Because it reads like you meant the second one, and that would make me a little put-out (to have someone using Tolkien's name)!

I can't really make any other comments, because I haven't read any of the books being discussed at the moment. But I would like to give a quick run-down of some books I've read recently and my opinions:
~ A Curse Dark as Gold: this one drew me in with some fascinating cover art. It's a Rumpelstiltskin retelling, and I'm always on the lookout for good fairytale reworkings (I don't often find them, though. Apparently I'm too picky! ) This one didn't make my grade. It was strange and, for the most part, depressing. I liked the unique setting (Early Industrial Revolution, England) and think it worked really well for the Rumpelstiltskin tale.

~ Northanger Abbey: My first reading! It is quite humorous and I like it almost as much as P&P. My favorite part is when Henry is teasing Catherine on the ride about what she will find at the Abbey.
~ The Shining Company: This book was not as long as some of Sutcliff's other works, but I'd say it's about average as far as quality. The action segments are pretty short compared to the rest of the story, which was fine with me. It's a rather sad book, because the army of which the main character is part is almost wiped out, so most of his friends die.

I've got quite a stack of books that I'm working on or intend to read ASAP:
~ Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien (nonfic.)
~ Moby Dick
~ The Complete Sherlock Holmes (third reading - great stuff!)
~ With Clive in India (G.A. Henty)
~ and I'm reading through the Borrowers series with my littler sisters. We're on number three (this one's a tad slow) and really enjoying ourselves.

I was thinking about reading Wives & Daughters too, since I have easier access to that than N&S. I heard W&D was unfinished though, is that correct and if so, does it end leaving pieces of the story incomplete?

I actually forgot that it was unfinished! That's how tidy it is, as Mel called it. It's certainly not the type of unfinished work that haunts your imagination like a ghost not properly laid to rest....or something.

I think I enjoyed it even more than N&S; though it was not as sad, it was more real -and I have a tendency now to gravitate towards realistic books over the more fanciful or far-fetched ones.

As for Coral Island my little sister read it the other day and told me it was scarier and darker than I had painted it. I honestly didn't remember that, did you think it was dark for a children's book? And I agree about the cat! It was one of my favourite characters and shows how well-written an animal can be without any lines.

Oh, and I think it was Ralph who

.

Glad you're enjoying Northanger Abbey. I liked it; although found the humourous aspect rather overrated. I was thinking the other day, my favourite of Austen's works are definitely Persuasion (one of my favourite books of all time) and Mansfield Park -the rest are not as amazing to me. Which means, of course, it's time for some re-reads.

I don't think Coral Island is dark. It was sad in places, and it might be frightening for younger people, but not dark.

I haven't yet read the Austens that you mention as being your favorites, so I can't compare them to Northanger. But I do know I liked it better then both Emma and S&S. Mansfield Park will be the next of hers I read. It sounds good!

I still need more suggestions on great books to read, any suggestion? I got some here in this thread like, How to Kill A Mockingbird and Oliver Twist.

But I do know I liked it better then both Emma and S&S. Mansfield Park will be the next of hers I read. It sounds good!

Oh lovely, it sounds like you're building up to the best! (well, we're each entitled to our opinion, and that's mine ).

The heroines in S&S and Emma are characters who I couldn't really relate to -Maryanne especially annoyed me; but then I've always disliked spoilt, hot headed & over-the-top characters. Emma I think will grow on me, as she changed more gracefully and believably & Mr. Knightley especially was superb, but I can't yet find the energy to re-read that one. Also it's a lot more complex than the other two I have complaints against; which I think is key, as it leaves one with more to think on. In NA I couldn't quite find the sympathy for Catherine I should have. Other than the heroines of those three books, the supporting characters are always an absolute treat to read in all of Austen's books and observing how they interact socially is a remarkable lesson in human relations (which I personally really enjoy reading).

sandyentersnarnia It sounds like you're off to a great start with those books; if you like the classics and a cohesive story I would suggest trying Heidi. It's a lovely little book with a lot of heart and just the right amount of philosophising to make it worthwhile.

Wait, wait, wait! Are you meaning that a character in that book rivals Faramir in LotR, or this someone else named Faramir?

The character's name is Caleb, and he reminds me of Faramir. I'm sorry if that came across as confusing. N. D. Wilson borrows his names from other sources than Tolkien. (Or, if he does, it's well disguised, like the reference in City of Ember by Jeanne DePrau...)

I liked [Northanger Abby]; although found the humourous aspect rather overrated.

I think the humour in the second half went over my head since I've never read one of the original gothic thrillers. I found the first half hilarious, though my sister didn't see the humour in that part either.

EDIT: This essay may be of interest to the Attolian Conspiracy.

Maddy: For not having read much over the past while, you certainly got some heavy reading done. I'm not sure I agree with your conclusion about the amount of reading you've done. Thank you for that blog post! I think most heroes are Sandwiches, but I loved reading her post. I haven't read, or even heard of, most of the books she mentions.

I'm so glad someone else in this thread loves Frances Hardinge's books and has read her newest, Kate

Wish I could say that was me, but it wasn't.

Because I have a terrible habit of reading more than one book at the same time, I'm still working on Mansfield Park, but have also finished Lloyd Alexander's The Book of Three. I've always wanted to read the Prydain Chronicles, but I never did and I figured this would be a good opportunity. I was disappointed, though. I thought the whole concept, the characters, and Prydain itself were only half-realized. I found myself rooting against the Horned King for the sake of hating evil, rather than out of a love for Prydain and its people. It seemed like The Lord of the Rings (Gurgi reminded me of Smeagol quite a lot) with a whole lot Arthurian influence. At this point, I'm not at all inclined to continue reading the other books. Should I be persuaded otherwise?

I'm also halfway through The Bell at Sealey Head and I love it so far. It's very strong and refreshing to read such a strongly realized and creative idea after the disappointing Prydain. How on earth do you pronounce Ysabo?

I still need more suggestions on great books to read, any suggestion?

Have you already finished the ones you wanted to read? I'm impressed!

I've really enjoyed all the thoughts on Mansfield Park, thank you Frank and Matette. I think maybe Fanny's flaw is a lack of confidence which in the end ends up really hurting many of the people around her. She has incredible judgment and conviction and always does and thinks what is right, but she cannot communicate that to anyone or save anyone heartache because of it. Would they listen to her if she did? Well, probably not.

How on earth do you pronounce Ysabo?

. I said "esawbow" .

Matette: I read Coral Island a looong time ago. I don't remember it being dark, though I was a little freaked out with the cannibals .

Finished The Red Pyramid last night and I was bawling. I wasn't very happy with the ending. I liked that

My only other complaints with the books would be that Sadie is constantly using the Lord's name in vain and that the beginning and ending of the book are similar to the beginning and ending of the Percy Jackson series. But it is the same author.