Smartypie, welcome to the forum, yet I'm curious: what in the Bible -- the parts that aren't supposed Secret Hidden Numbers and Codes -- leads you to believe that ...

1. We're supposed to look in the Bible, or in anything else, and find Codes?

2. God has never stopped giving new revelation, even through the work of non-Christian scriptwriters?

3. God could actually "inspire" writers in the same way He inspired the writers of Scripture, and in this case, use writer who overlooked Biblical truth -- such as saying that to defeat evil in yourself, you must look further within yourself instead of to Christ's (or Aslan's) righteousness -- and even "Narnian" truth in the movie version (Evil Green Mist, etc.)?

But the biggest question is no. 1 up there. Lots of things make us feel better. But I would encourage you: don't search your feelings like a Jedi, search the Scriptures (the plain meanings) like a Berean (Acts. 17:11).

^^ God can inpire something without it being quite the same thing as the way He inspired the Bible. God can give anyone an idea. And He can also use anything for His purposes, including non-Christians.

That being said, I agree with the rest. I don't believe there are secret codes to be found in VDT. And I don't think this particular movie was inspired, judging on the tremendous amount of worldliness in it.

~Riella

To Ransom:

I looked at your profile and my suspicion was confirmed. You're an English person! It's common knowledge at schools that most math teathers can't spell and hate to write and English teachers hate and can't do math. I can feel intimidated by those who are more eloquent than I (doesn't take much ) so be patient with me. I type slow, have to constantly check my spelling, and usually end up rewriting half of my work. Then I get tired and frustrated, chuck the whole thing or worse yet, lose it to cyberspace because I didn't save before getting bumped off. Did I mention that I'm slow and absentminded?

1. If you were living in the 1st century or earlier, you wouldn't have asked this question. Their letters were their numerals. Common knowledge and second nature to read words as numbers. Rev 13:18 -" Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six." I don't believe I said anything about being secret. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't there. Ask an observant Jew or go to a Messianic synagouge. Why do you suppose Matthew brings up the point that Christ's geneology can be broken into 3 groups of 14? Matt 1:17
Is it just a coincidence that David = 14 in Hebrew? As a tax collector, I'm sure he was well aware of that fact. BTW, the 1st occurance of 14 = Gold. All the furniture in the tabernacle was made of pure gold. The lampstand was beaten out of one solid piece. The letters that spell David give a picture of the crucifixtion, the ark of the covenant, and other things that I won't go into here. Orthodox Jews believe that every stroke of the pen is significant. Even Jesus said as much in Matt 5:18

2. Where does it say He has?

3. Your whole argument nullifies all of Narnia. I don't see the point. Are you suggesting I'm naive and/ or don't know my Bible? My parents went to Moody Bible Institute, were missionaries in Panama and Ecuador, and raised me to love the Lord. I did crossover to the Seventh Day Adventist church in my early 30's (to the dissappointment of my parents), but have quit going there since around 2001. The average SDA knows more about the Bible than the typical fundamentalist/ conservative Christian. So yeah, I did find your last sentence, in bold no less, a bit condescending.

I have 3 wonderful adult children and 3 delightful grandchildren. I assure you, I understand the complete depravity of my sinful flesh and my utmost dependence on my Savior's blood to wash my "garments" Rev 7:14

PS I seriously doubt you want a detailed explanation of why I study gematria. (I know, my stereotyping of English people. I eat lunch with 2 of them every day at school. ) I can give you some links that will save me a lot of typing and if you are willing to wade through some of it, you might be surprised. I realize that the plain reading of scripture is the first priority. I do that. Just think of what also I'm doing as something similar to stamp collecting, painting, rock climbing, etc. We do those things for the detailed creativity, the beauty, the challenge, and that occassional take-my-breath-away moment. And I've had those moments where the tears fell to the point where I had to get on my knees and praise God for His matchless beauty.

PPS What do you get when you lay 7 swords on Aslan's table besides the blue light special? 14 sectors or rays like a lighthouse! And now you know one of the "secret" riddles of my username. J/K, actually, I wanted to be a "smartypants" in a sort of self depracating way, but it was already taken. I had noticed the time was 3:14, so I went with the smartypie even though I was cringing as submitted it.

Hey back, Smartypie!

Yes, I'm a journalism major -- so I suppose that means I'm an "English guy." To complete the basic intro: I'm a local journalist and online columnist, focusing especially on the fields of Godly-imagination-meets-Biblical-truth. My years of involvement with NarniaWeb -- and a moderator for five years -- has contributed to this experience.

But, I will remind you and I both that Experience gets trumped by clear Biblical truth every time. More on that below ... I disbelieve in a sort of Christian caste system based on Experience, though of course God can teach us wisdom through His Word by using our experiences to point to His Word. Am I questioning your understanding of His Word so far as regards the plain-English (translations, of course) parts? Nope. But when you go for all this numerology stuff, that shows a clear contradiction to what the Word has said -- especially when you've claimed a secular movie script could even possibly be as inspired as Scripture itself was.

As Ithilwen said above, the Dawn Treader film was full of anti-Gospel (regardless of the writers' intentions), pro-human-ability messages. Even if God were still revealing truths directly today, in the same way He's revealed them in inerrant Scripture, He would not contradict Himself or else be a) incompetent and idiot, b) a lying tyrant.

Alas! I know that using such words can come across wrong on the internet, a text-only medium, especially when we do not know each other and could easily and automatically assume that the other guy is surely a Bad Guy who Must be Stopped at All Costs. By zeal, I hope, through the grace of God that has saved this wretched sinner from God's righteous wrath to instead delight in His love and truth, is not to Be Right but to point to the Righteous One, Who always speaks clearly when He does speak, and is not so cruel as to tell us or even imply that we should listen for some kind of extra revelation, or dig in for some supposed deeper-layer in ways the Biblical writers never intended.

At this point you may feel a bit defensive; I hope to respond to your material in a point-by-point fashion, not to seem adversarial, but to keep things as clear as I can. Also, as you seem to enjoy knowing more about your civil opponents -- a reassuring habit! -- feel free to investigate the links in my signature, especially YeHaveHeard, to learn more about what Biblical truths I like to write about, and myths I find to bust, and why.

If you were living in the 1st century or earlier, you wouldn't have asked this question.

Interesting. Which reference works on hermeneutics and exegesis confirm this guess about the Original Readers? I'm with you on seeking to understand a text the way its original readers would have understood it. But I don't think you realize that looking in every genre of Scripture for number codes (secret or otherwise) is an utter violation of right hermeneutics. I might as well read what you wrote and add up all the numbers of your words (converted to Hebrew) and start finding "plain meanings" (not so plain to the Uninitiate) that could contradict what you actually meant to say!

Their letters were their numerals. Common knowledge and second nature to read words as numbers. Rev 13:18 -" Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."

Whatever that means -- and this former Left Behind end-times aficionado is well aware of the many theories about that! -- we find that John specifically asked people to determine the Beast's "number." What he doesn't say: do this for everything else. In fact, the very reason he singles this is out is likely because this is something unusual.

I'll keep repeating my question (which you haven't answered): where in Scripture are we encouraged to seek extra knowledge from the use of numbers? And even if that were true, why look for more from other sources that are non-Christian, and contradict the revealed Word?

I don't believe I said anything about being secret. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't there. Ask an observant Jew or go to a Messianic synagouge.

Mmm. I have seen many people trying to recapture First-Century Understandings who end up rabbi-chasing and Jewish-culture-enjoying so much that they miss the whole point of the Old Testament, the Law, the entire revelation of Scripture: Jesus Christ (Hebrews 1). Any Hebrew scholar or Jewish mystic who misses that absolutely huge overarching storyline can't be trusted to show some other reading mode.

Why do you suppose Matthew brings up the point that Christ's geneology can be broken into 3 groups of 14? Matt 1:17

Oh, many reasons, and yours is only one theory. Some believe Matthew phrased it that way to help people memorize the genealogy. But regardless of his reason, the fact remains that Matthew abridged the genealogy. Here's a summary from the ESV Study Bible:

Matthew does not mean all the generations that had lived during those times but “all” that he included in his list (for he evidently skipped some, such as three generations between Joram and Uzziah [Azariah] in v. 8; cf. 1 Chron. 3:10–12); cf. note on Matt. 1:6b–11. Perhaps for ease of memorization, or perhaps for literary or symbolic symmetry, Matthew structures the genealogy to count 14 generations from each major section.

Shouldn't we ensure to use the clearer parts of Scripture -- such as its sufficiency and finality -- to interpret the less-clear parts?

Is it just a coincidence that David = 14 in Hebrew? As a tax collector, I'm sure he was well aware of that fact.

Apparently to you this has some Meaning and is somehow a proof for, again, looking in the Bible for Numeric Codes (secret or otherwise) to learn new things, which Scripture doesn't encourage us to do. I'm just missing the correlation between "isn't this an interesting equivalent that Matthew brought out" and "that means these parallels are everywhere!"

By the way, I don't think this is some kind of heresy. I may disagree with it, but that won't keep you from being a true Christian or something! But it's the part about using the same technique on, of all things, a secular movie script, where things get dicey. Dawn Treader's scriptwriters may or may not have written an excellent script (hint: not), or been Christians, but either way, no one is inspired in the same way Scripture's writers were.

BTW, the 1st occurance of 14 = Gold. All the furniture in the tabernacle was made of pure gold. The lampstand was beaten out of one solid piece. The letters that spell David give a picture of the crucifixtion, the ark of the covenant, and other things that I won't go into here.

My reminder is that we don't need all these things to prove that David forecast the Messiah from his line. These truths are presented far more clearly in other Scriptures, such as Psalm 22. Moreover, if we truly believe that the Bible is God's revealed Word and sufficient, our ultimate authority, why try to apply some kind of alternate logic to its contents, as if the proof we find in plain language isn't enough? I say this not to condemn, but to encourage you. And if you here displayed the same level of enthusiasm for the Bible's clear prophecies and claims in plain language, I might not be so picky. But from here it sounds like The Bible Code of last decade, and reading the Bible alongside The Wall Street Journal to determine who is and isn't Gog and/or Magog today. Perhaps you hold the clearest words of Scripture in higher regard elsewhere, though!

Orthodox Jews believe that every stroke of the pen is significant. Even Jesus said as much in Matt 5:18

Amen. That's why it's important to give value to Scripture, and not equal value to Some Other Thing. Moreover, Christ was making the jot-and-tittles point to ensure we know that He came not to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it completely. And again, any scholar, first-century or otherwise, Jew or otherwise, who misses that is missing the whole point.

2. God has never stopped giving new revelation, even through the work of non-Christian scriptwriters?

2. Where does it say He has?

Nope, I'm afraid it's incumbent on you to prove that He hasn't, when:

1) Scripture in its self-references, Old Testament and New Testament -- Jesus about the OT being God's Word, NT writers about one another's books being God's Word -- claim to be God's Word.

2) Revelation includes a warning, for itself as a book (and likely for the rest of Scripture) not to add or detract from the Bible.

3) Supposed extra words from the Lord must be consistent, emphasize Christ, not be contradictory and point back to the Word of God. They are not miracles for their own sake, or "further" proof of the Gospel. Christ is the final Word, better than the Law, the prophets, angels, the sacrificial system, any other religion (the book of Hebrews). Why look for more?

To claim that God is still showing us new things (even contradictory "truths") through non-Christian scriptwriters is decidedly non-kosher! Why treat His actual revealed Word so casually? How do you think Jesus feels about that? Your Word isn't sufficient, Lord -- I think I'll go find more from a devotional, or a poorly written movie script ... And if you doubt that the script was not only poorly written but horribly flawed in its "theology," not only compared with the Bible but with the Dawn Treader story itself, I can explain that here, or point to other threads.

Please understand, I can sympathize with that feeling. There are many ideas about there about how we could try to get in touch with God in ways that tell us new things about Him. But is that recommended in Scripture? Or do we already possess the truth we need from God and need to pray His Spirit will help us become more aware of it?

In Ephesians 1, the apostle Paul’s loving letter to a new church, he prays for them: not that they would find new wisdom, but that they would have “the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glorious inheritance in the saints” (verse 18), through Christ’s death and resurrection. Jesus, open their eyes to the amazing salvation and spiritual riches You’ve already given them!

3. Your whole argument nullifies all of Narnia. I don't see the point.

Actually it nullifies only the most recent movie's per-version. Moreover, I can enjoy the Chronicles even if I disagree with their author's other beliefs that were flat wrong and un-Biblical (examples: vagueness about Christ's substitutionary atonement in Mere Christianity, theistic evolution and ignoring Genesis in The Problem of Pain). That was my point. And surely we can enjoy any artistic work by a Christian without claiming it's inspired on the same level as Scripture. I hope I haven't misunderstood you here. Is that what you meant to say: that if Narnia is great and Biblical, it must be inspired?

Are you suggesting I'm naive and/ or don't know my Bible?

Hey, we're all sorting through the contents of this amazing Book, the epitome of God's revelation. I haven't Arrived at a perfect understanding; have you?

My parents went to Moody Bible Institute, were missionaries in Panama and Ecuador, and raised me to love the Lord. I did crossover to the Seventh Day Adventist church in my early 30's (to the dissappointment of my parents), but have quit going there since around 2001.

Follow me, please, on this humorous and rhetorical example: well, my parents went to Moody Bible Institute and Wheaton College and Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, and were missionaries in Panama, Ecuador and Iran during the overthrow of the Shah in 1979, and I was raised to love the Lord and stayed out of Seventh-Day Adventism entirely.

I hope you see my point? Not only does my "Christian Cred" not count if I'm saying something un-Biblical, but if you try to make only it count toward your status as an Authority, someone else will always come along and trump you. The Apostle Paul, frequently, appealed not to his Positive Religious Experience but to all the times he was persecuted -- and even then, it was his secondary argument, against the "super-apostles" who claimed they were so religiously wise. Either way, he asked them to test not what anyone said based on their Experiences, but with the Gospel.

(References available for all those upon request.)

Moreover, when it comes to experience, the Apostle Peter has us all trumped. He happened to have had the mountaintop experience of a lifetime, in which Jesus Himself transformed into a vision of glory and splendor, shining like a supernova, and joining long-departed saints for a chat about His plans. But, Peter quickly added, "we have something more sure, the prophetic word, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place" (from 2 Peter 1:16-20).

The average SDA knows more about the Bible than the typical fundamentalist/ conservative Christian.

I've met some great SDA-ers, though it seems we both know the denomination has issues (just as culturally fundamentalist denominations and churches do, such as little extreme-free-willie, anti-particular-music-genre, anti-a-lot-else, women-always-wear-skirts-or-be-rebels churches). But because of that whole insistence on Saturday-worship-or-else-you've-bought-into-the-Mark-of-the-Beast thing, I don't think SDAers get credit for understanding the main point of the Bible -- Christ has set us free to delight in Him, not separate over secondary issues -- any more than does the well-versed Baptist who wrongly thinks "whatever you bind on Earth will be bound in Heaven" (Matthew 18) has to do with yelling at demons.

So yeah, I did find your last sentence, in bold no less, a bit condescending.

But I'd say that to any fellow brother or sister in the Lord, regardless of their experience or Scripture memory, who seems to be de-valuing the Word by looking for more of it elsewhere, especially from non-Christian writers who overtly contradict the Bible and the "Narnia" book.

I have 3 wonderful adult children and 3 delightful grandchildren. I assure you, I understand the complete depravity of my sinful flesh and my utmost dependence on my Savior's blood to wash my "garments" Rev 7:14

Great to know. And if it weren't for Christ's word to fulfill the Old Covenant with the new, we'd all still be walking around dead in our trespasses and sins (Ephesians 2) and with hearts of stone.

PS I seriously doubt you want a detailed explanation of why I study gematria. (I know, my stereotyping of English people. I eat lunch with 2 of them every day at school. ) I can give you some links that will save me a lot of typing and if you are willing to wade through some of it, you might be surprised.

I think it's an interesting hobby, but doesn't automatically lend itself to going digging for long theories about this-or-that word equaling this number so that we can "prove" Scripture even more than Scripture even more plainly, without Special Knowledge, proves itself. This is my view, but it's quite entrenched due to the bad fruits I've seen from those who try to go digging like that. Everyone I've heard from ends up finding anti-Biblical beliefs, such as "I know when Jesus will come back, based on the Numbers I've put together" (i.e. Harold Camping), or, sorry to say, "This movie script is clearly inspired based on the Numbers I found."

I realize that the plain reading of scripture is the first priority. I do that. Just think of what also I'm doing as something similar to stamp collecting, painting, rock climbing, etc.

If not for those anti-Biblical beliefs that devalue the actual revealed Word -- which rules out transmission of new inspired truths, especially to non-Christians, and knowing the date or hour of Christ's return -- I'd have no issue with gematria. Perhaps you could help me see its more-Biblical fruits that make it more of, like I said, an interesting hobby -- as you said below? No Christian should go chasing after a hobby like stamp-collecting or rock-climbing, as if that's less Spiritual! But if it starts somehow bringing in anti-Biblical beliefs ... well, a Christian must act in love to point that out and show where the contradictions are, do you agree?

We do those things for the detailed creativity, the beauty, the challenge, and that occassional take-my-breath-away moment. And I've had those moments where the tears fell to the point where I had to get on my knees and praise God for His matchless beauty.

I've certainly had similar moments, especially as a fiction writer. Yet I also try to recall that nature confirms God's existence; Scripture alone confirms what He is like, what He's been doing, is doing, and will do!

PPS What do you get when you lay 7 swords on Aslan's table besides the blue light special? 14 sectors or rays like a lighthouse! And now you know one of the "secret" riddles of my username.

Oh, you did have me for just a second. But please, please do not torture me about the Seven Swords. If The Chronicles of Narnia books were canon, the Seven Swords are heresy. A totally useless, cliched and unexplained Quest, detracting from Aslan's Country ... the offenses go on and on.

J/K, actually, I wanted to be a "smartypants" in a sort of self depracating way, but it was already taken. I had noticed the time was 3:14, so I went with the smartypie even though I was cringing as submitted it.

I remember smartypants, and at first I thought you were him/her (I think it was a her). Of course, you could have done Smarty Pants or smarty_pants or some derivative. If you ever want to change that word -- as opposed to, by accident, seeming to endorse a change to the real Word! -- I certainly won't object, and while wearing my moderator hat would be glad to arrange that change for you.

Glad to find the time to interact further on this issue. Now for some other writing, while I'm still recovering from a cold and allergies. Godspeed.

I'm back. No, I didn't get lost or quit. I've actually been diving for pearls to pay off the Ransom note. The problem has been that just when I think I have enough, my eye catches another big oyster and back down I go. Sometimes I stay down so long that I think the lack of oxygen makes me hallucinate and then I have to quickly surface and gulp down some air.

Okay, enough of my feeble attempt at humor. In reality, you and I probably believe much of the same things. ( I have skimmed over your website.) I think I may have given the wrong impression in my previous posts. I'm not a very good communicator when it comes to the written word. I do much better when I'm talking. In this medium, you are going to run circles around me with your expertise. I know I can't compete with you for many reasons. One of them being that I type too slow. So, this is what I'm going to do. First of all, I will state a few of my fundamental beliefs. Then, I will list 101 examples of mathematical structure in the movie that ties in with scripture. These examples will not contradict the Word of God, rather, they will exalt Him.

I Believe:

1) in the infallibility of the Scriptures
2) the Romans Road ( For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;Rom 3:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Rom 6:23 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Rom 10:9-10
3) the 10 commandments are to be written on our hearts (But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. Jer 31:33 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. Rev 14:12

And now for the COINS (coincidence only in natural science ).

Coin #101 - Yes, I am going to do this like a countdown. Besides, 101 is my favorite number and it is the key that unlocks a lot of doors, especially the door to my heart. Let's look at 101. It is probably the most common number in book titles. It is used to represent the beginning course of a curriculum in college. It even looks like lOl (those were L's)
It even gives a picture of a pearl inside of 2 walls. People throw around the #101 as if it is nothing special. Such a common looking number. But isn't that how Jesus was while he was here on earth. He walked in humility and with a servant's heart.

Michael in Hebrew = 101. And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. Dan 12:1 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, Rev 12:7 Michael means "who is like God". There are 15 verses in the Bible that contain Michael. 15 = 3X5. The mercy seat is in a 3X5 ratio. The tabernacle is filled with the number 5. It represents the will and grace (the 5 piercings of the body of Christ). The first occurrance of Michael is in Numbers 13:13. 1313 = 13X 101. There were 12 tribes and 12 disciples and 1 Teacher. 13 is the number of the 2nd order of the Star of David. In Hebrew: Love = 13, Unity = 13, Yahweh (YHVH) = 26 = 13X2, The Lord is One = 39 = 13X3, the sum of the Shema (Deu 6:4) =1118 = 13X86 (86 = Elohiym) 1 Cor 13 is considered the love chapter.

101 base 1 = 2 (two ticks) Jesus is the 2nd person of the trinity.
101 base 2 = 5 (will and grace) Jesus willingly poured out his grace on us.
101 base 3 = 10 (10 is the # of law) Jesus is the law personified.
101 base 4 = 17 (17 is the # of judgement) Jesus is our High Priest (book of Hebrews)
101 base 5 = 26 = YHVH = Yehovah or Yahweh = he who is or I am
101 base 6 = 37 Notice that this is in base 6, the number (or day) of man. The average human body temp. is 37 degrees celsius (scale of 0 to 100 for water in the liquid state) 37 is the 3rd order Star of David. The 4th order Star of David is 73, the reflection of 37. 37X73 = 2701 = the value of Genesis 1:1 the 1st 7 words of the Bible! I want you to pay close attention to 2701. We will come back to it later.
101 base 7 = 50 = Jubilee = Freedom from the power, penalty, and presence of sin. There are 64 (8X8) unique words that = 50. the first is "everytning" and the last is "righteous". Coincidence?

Now for some English . Each letter has three values. Ordinal (position in the alphabet), Standard (standard gematria, google it), and Combined or what I like to call, exalted (ord + std)

Lamb = 28 (OV) = the # of letters in Gen 1:1. Lamb = 73 (SV) = one of the 2 prime factors of Gen 1:1 (37X73). In Hebrew, wisdom = 73. Lamb = 101 = 28 + 73 (CV)

White = 787 (CV). So in "Dawn Treader" at the end and in the book of Revelation we have the bright "White Lamb" which = 787 + 101 (exalted value) = 888.
888 is the standard Greek gematria of Jesus. It is the most symmetrical of all the triplets (111, 222, etc). It = 24(8+8+8) X 37 . There are 24 hours in a day and 24 elders around the throne in heaven.

Aaron, the first high priest, = 202 (SV) in English. 202 is similar to 101 but not congruent.

Lilliandil, the blue star, = 202 (SV). Coincidence? You tell me. Aaron wore a blue ephod. Lilliandil was dressed in a blue/ white dress.

BTW, the Holy of Holies was 10X10X10, That is 1000 cubic cubits. Counting from the ark of the covenant out, the 101st cube would be centered over the mercy seat, half inside the ark and half over the mercy seat between the 2 cheribum. Another aside. The construction of the ark starts at Ex 37. Yup, just another coincidence.

I need to stop for now or I'll never get done, plus I have other obligations today. The remaining 100 coins should not be as lengthy. I will try to post at least one -a-day . Fill free to print this out and dissect it and/ or share it. If you find any counting errors, please let me know. I'm saving the fireworks for Coin #1, so you all will just have to be patient. It's a doozy!

Why do you think God would hide numbers in movies and books like this? I certainly don't remember anything in The Bible that says He does. And if God was going to hide a bunch of codes everywhere for us to look for, He would certainly mention somewhere that it was our job to find them. Otherwise the whole population of God's people would be innocently not looking for codes (Like many people are doing now), while they're supposed to be looking for the codes, and they wouldn't even know it. God wouldn't keep us all in the dark about it, if he had left messages for us everywhere like that.

I don't think God hides codes in things such as this. I mean, I know that there were a few examples of God using numbers to represent things at times (Just as He has been known to use many other things at times), but I don't believe he would take the number thing to an extent such as that. Especially because --

1. Making us look for a bunch of codes would be so time-consuming, it would take away from time we could be using serving him and witnessing to others (which is really our purpose on earth right now).

2. God wants His word to be clear -- clear to super-smart people, clear to the very simple people, clear to everyone. When He gave us His word, He told us everything we need to know in plain terms. He didn't hide it in codes. There wouldn't be much point in it, other than to create a "cool, fun little mystery for His Children to find in their spare time".

If God wanted to tell us something, I think He would either tell the masses using His word, or tell each individual using circumstances in their lives. I don't believe He would use hidden codes about fictional blue stars named Lilliandil who were created by a human author and then adapted by secular filmmakers.

It sounds like it would make an interesting movie plot -- looking for hidden codes and numbers and things. But I don't believe He would do it in real life. There wouldn't be much point in it anyway, since the Bible already tells us everything we need to know about Him.

P.S. You're so lucky you got to look for pearls. Sounds fun.

~Riella

Why do you think God would hide numbers in movies and books like this? I certainly don't remember anything in The Bible that says He does. And if God was going to hide a bunch of codes everywhere for us to look for, He would certainly mention somewhere that it was our job to find them. ...~Riella

Actually, He does mention it in His word. "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter." Pro 25:2 Do you mind exploring this verse a little with me? It's my first venture into this verse mine and I think I see some promise of "golden nuggets" here.

In Hebrew, there are 8 words, 30 letters, and a total value of 1669. 1669 is a prime number. Only 3 words in the Bible = 1669, all Greek. Speak, answer, and commend. There are 9 verses that = 1669, with Pro 25:2 being the 9th. 9 is the # of the Holy Spirit. Think of 9 months in the womb. Did you know that womb is sometimes translated "matrix". We use that word in math to describe an array of numbers. The 1st word translated "It is the glory" = 26 = value of YHVH, Jehovah or Yahweh. The 5th word translated "but the honor" is the same Strong's word, but in the original, it has the 6th Hebrew letter, vav, which = 6. So now we have 26+6= 32. There are 44 words that = 32. The 1st is "heart" and the last is "good". So, already we see the witness that a good heart seeks after God's glory. But of course, we all know that our hearts are originally wicked, so that we need God's spirit within us to even seek His glory. We even need His spirit to repent. Notice the 66 between the 1 and the 9. There are 66 books in the Bible. 66= 6X11. 6 is the number of man and 11 is the number of faithful witness. The Bible even calls the 11 faithful disciples, "the eleven". The Hebrew word that is translated glory(1st) and honor(5th) is found in 189 verses in 27 books. 189 is also 27 X 7. 27 is 3 to the 3rd power. There are 27 books in the NT.

The 4th word (dabar), translated "thing" and 8th (also dabar), translated "matter", each = 206. There are 77 (7 X 11 = perfect or complete witness) words that = 206. The 1st is "seasons" or "appointed time", and the last is "that one may open". Also, 206 = 103 X 2. There are 84 words that = 103. 77 in Hebrew and 7 in Greek. 1st word = 103 is "star" and last = "agape" or love. In Revelation 1:20, stars are used to represent angels. The ark of the covenant has 2 angels gazing down on the mercy seat. Do you see the marvelous riddle in this verse? I was not expecting this. Especially in light of the domestic total as of Feb 27th being 103,777, 017. For the #777. The 1st word is "Methusael" which means "who is of God" and the last word is "prove" found in Eph 5:10 "Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord." There are 17 words in the Bible that = 777! Wow! Do you see that? The last 3 digits 017. 17 is the number for judgement and resurrection. Jesus died on the 15th, rested in the tomb on the 16th, and rose on the 17th. The 153 fish in John 21, signifying the ingathering of the church, = the sum of the numbers 1 through 17. This has been known since the early church days. Wow! This is cool! I was expecting something like this to happen and now it is unfolding before our very eyes.

This leads me to my original COIN #100 post. Jesus has his eye on the sparrow and I know he watches over me. The very hairs of my head (the ones that are left ) are numbered. Mat 10:30 " But the very hairs of your head are all numbered." Do you see the 103 X 10?

There are 31102 verses in the Bible. Divide that in half and you get 15551 + 15551. 15551 is a prime number. There are no words that = 15551. But..... the 15551st verse is...... wait for it.......Psalm 103:1 "A Psalm of David. Bless the LORD, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name." Thank you, Jesus. I love YOU!!! You are my everything, Lord! I am so lost without you, Lord. Halelujah! What a beautiful verse. 10 words (Law) 33 letters (the age when Jesus gave his life for you and me) total gematria of 2662. 26 and its reflection, 62. 26 being Yahweh and 13 + 13. Love and more Love. Did you know that there 26 bones in each foot. The 26 bones in our feet need to follow Yahweh = 26. Coincidence?

Dawn in English = 555 (SV). There are 46 words that = 555. The 1st is "dragon" and the last is "lust". Why did C. S. Lewis make the "Dawn Treader" a dragon? Is it because we are all really Eustace? I know I am. Is it just a coincidence that someone decided to put the "Dawn Treader" in Aslan's eyes? Which number looks like I (eye )? So the riddle is: If we rightly divide the word of truth, the light will dawn in our eyes. I555I + I555I

Here is something to ponder on till my next COIN. Purple (royalty) = 565 and gold = 101. Purple and gold = 666. The love of money is the root of all evil because it is basically a lust for power and control over our own lives as was played out by Edmund in the cave. He didn't want to be told what to do. That is the opposite of God's Law, which is submission.

I hope this is okay to put in a separate post. I think it is so important, that I didn't want it to get lost in the previous post. If need be, I can merge it into the previous one.

COIN #99 - I thought Coin #1 was going to be big, but while I was researching today, I came across something huge. It is truly staggering! If this doesn't convince anyone, then I don't know if another 98 examples will do any good.

Peter's sword, Rhindon, is what got me started on this journey several weeks ago. I had seen that "blue" + "star" + "Rhindon" = 999. Big deal, you might say. Okay, no big deal. But let's dig deeper. The big diamonds are sometimes buried deep. Rhindon = 82 (OV) There are 76 Hebrew words that = 82. The 1st is "between" found in Gen 3:15. The last is "lightning" found in Zec 10:1. Notice the 101! Join 1st with last and you get "between lightning". There are 4 Greek words that = 82. The 1st is "spin" found in Mat 6:28. The last is "Cana = place of reeds" found in Jo 2:1. Wedding on 3rd day with Jesus' 1st miracle.

The standard value of Rhindon is where the excitement really starts. It is 271, a prime number. A very special prime number. The star of David on the flag of Israel is blue. The 10th order star is made up of 541 counters. Think coins positioned in the shape of a hexagram like on the back of the $1 bill (13 stars above the eagle in the 2nd order hexagram). Words that = 541: Israel ,The Commandments [Num 36.13], Tablets of Stone [Deut 5.22], The Judgement [Rom 2.2], The Unleavened Bread [Ex 23.15], I Will Keep [Ps 119.101], I Will Pray [Ps 5.2], For a memorial between your eyes [Ex 13.9], Teach me thy way, O Lord, The Good [Rom 7.21], The Fruit, The Lord is in this place [Gen 26.16]

The heart of a hexagram is in the shape of a hexagon. Think of the honeycomb and also the seed of a snowflake. Graphite from carbon has a hexagonal crystaline structure. 6 is the atomic number of carbon. It is the number of man.

The hexagonal heart of the 10th order star of David is 271 = Rhindon. I'm pretty sure C.S. Lewis did not do this on purpose, but I believe the Holy Spirit did. There are 60 unique words in the Bible that = 271. 60 = 6 X 10 = man X law (10 commandments). 55 are Hebrew and 5 are Greek. See the three 5's. Remember "dawn" = 555. There are 15551 + 15551 verses in the Bible. The 1st word is "said (spoke)" found in Gen 1:22 where God is telling the sea and air animals to be fruitful and multiply on the 5th day. The last word is "live" found in Rev 20:4 concerning those that lost their lives for not worshipping the beast. Join 1st with last and you have with the contexual words, "God spoke and they lived".

Rev 20:4 where the last 271 is found, is truly amazing. There are 58 words and 272 letters. 271 (God's word) + 1(Unity, God himself) The 19th word in this verse is "the witness". It contains the 88th (8x11) through the 96th (8x12) letters. 9 letters in the word. (9 is associated with the spirit). Michael (the captain of the angels and the king of Israel) in English = 96. The next word, the 20th, is Jesus, 5 letters in the Greek. It contains the 97th (prime) through the 101st(prime) letters. 101 is the value of Michael in Hebrew.

The 30th word προσεκυνησαν, contains the exact middle of the verse. The 1st letter is pi ( ), the 2nd is rho. Their combined ord value = 33. The 3rd letter, omicron, starts the 2nd half of the verse. The 4th letter is sigma. The ord value of those 2 letters also = 33. 33 is the age Jesus was crucified and ressurrected. Omicron, the start of the 2nd half, looks just like a circle. No beginning and no end. Jesus was sold for 30 pieces of silver. This 30th word is "worshipped" and it = 1184. There is 1 Hebrew word = 1184. The Strong's number for this word is H8666 and it means return. There are 8 Greek words that = 1184. The 1st is "worship" found in Mat 2:11 and the last is "gift" found in Heb 11:4 refering to Christ's sacrificial gift. Joining the 1st with last, we get "worship God's gift of Christ's sacrifice". Awesome!

One final gem and then it's off to sleep. The 19th word "the witness" before Jesus = 1002. There are 10 words that = 1002. 3 in Hebrew and 7 in Greek. I'm going to list them all because of their combined power.
1st- "pure" found in 2Sa 22:27
2nd- "Shemiramoth (name of heights)" found in 1Ch 15:18
3rd- "Shemiramoth (diff. spelling) found in 2Ch 17:8
4th- "these things" found in Mat 1:20
5th- "for witness or evidence" found in Mar 14:55
6th- "you shall be scattered" found in John 16:32
7th- "commanded" found in Act 13:47
8th- "prove or tested" found in 2Cor 8:8
9th- "to keep or guard" found in 2Tim 1:12
10th- "trace or count one's descent(geneology) found in Heb 7:6

Strung together like beads we get : "Pure name of heights, name of heights, these things for a witness you shall be scattered, commanded to prove or test, keep/ guard the tracecount of one/His descent."

Absolutely amazing! Thank you Jesus for your matchless gift.

COIN #98 - I am going to bump #1 up here since this is my 27th post. Hold on to your seats, because there are some jaw dropping coins in here.

Track #27 is "Into Battle". It is 11 minutes and 3 seconds long. The number 11 is associated with witness and destruction/ death. There are 22 unique Hebrew words that = 11. The 1st is "mist" and the 2nd is "where?" (2 words). Skip 6 words (6 is # of man). The 9th (1 short of a perfect 10) is "evil" (1 word). Skip 6 words again. Got to keep that evil word away from the others. The last 7 Hebrew words are "greenness" , "proud", "exalt", "gold", "portion", "Alas!", "firebrand". Wow! So we have 2...1...7 words (10 in all, 10 is # for law) There are 2 Greek words that = 11. "All" and "Maranatha (our Lord has or will come)".

Put the track # together with the time and you get 27-11:03. Squeeze them even closer and use a comma as in standard practice. 271,103 271 = Rhindon, 103 = Stars (1st Hebrew word that = 103). So..... 271,103 is saying "Rhindon Stars"

Oh, but wait. It gets even better. "Blue Star Rhindon" (OV) = 180. In the Bible, 180 is considered half of time (Dan 12:7 and Rev 12:14) (see the 7 and 14 ). In Geometry, 180 is a line (to say "straight line", would be redundant ). It is also half a circle or to "turn around" which is what repentance means . "Blue Star Rhindon" (SV) = 999. Greatest number in 3 dimensions. Signals finality. As silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. [Ps 12.7] = 999 (Notice the 127) But the meek shall inherit the earth [Ps 37.11] = 999 For a sign and for a wonder [Deu 28.46] = 999 Yet you shall be brought down to the grave [Is 14.15] = 999. 999 = 27 X 37. There are only 4 words that = 999, all Greek. In their order: "glorious", "release", "be", "fulfilled". Are you still skeptical?

Well, here come the fireworks! "Blue Star Rhindon" (combined or exalted value) = 1179. There are 5 (remember the 5 stones of David) words, all Greek, that = 1179. In their order: "rightly or plainly", "bring forth or down", "Salmone", "watch", "show". Salmone means "clothed" and it is a bold promontory on the east point of the island of Crete, the most fertile isle in the Mediterranean. So we can say, "Rightly/ plainly bring forth/ down clothed at eastern promontory and watch show." Salmone is in Acts 27:7. "Crete" in the same verse = 486. Ramandu = 486 (SV)

There are 20 Greek words that = 486. I am going to list all of them in their order:

closet
Father
child
hold
gladness
choose
letter
judge
abide
dwell
purify
Crete
barbarian
take
rock
do
move
be
tabernacle
go

There are 2 verses that = 486.

Thou shalt not steal. Exo 20:15
And they shall be my people, and I will be their God: Jer 32:38

I really don't know what else to say after all this. Dearly Beloved, if you can see this and still deny that God has annointed this movie, then my work here is done and I must move on with a heavy heart. I pray that I have not offended anyone. My only desire is to exalt the One who has pulled me out of the slimy pit that I fell in to. I owe Him my all, and I praise Him for sending a kid's movie to rescue me from my backsliding.

Smartypie, I am impressed with the amount of work that must have gone into these posts, but I'm not quite sure what you're trying to prove with all these mathematical calculations. What exactly is ordinal value and standard value? It's a little hard for me to appreciate the significance of your list of coincidences when I don't understand where you're getting all these numbers.

I hope I am not being offensive, but I think there is a fundamental problem with your reasoning behind VDT being divinely inspired. If God was to inspire a movie on earth, I think he would do something a bit more majestic than hiding numerical anomalies that virtually no one will ever notice in the names of objects in the movie. It would make more sense to look for divine inspiration in other aspects of the movie, rather than in something that almost everybody will never notice, much less understand.

It's been a while since this topic; somehow I stumbled across it again.

And I found it ironic that only about a month later, a certain other professing "evangelical" claimed to be finding the "secret meanings" of the Bible in order to predict a Rapture-type event on May 21, 2011.

Naturally, that didn't happen. It won't happen on Oct. 21, 2011 either.

People will also suffer even more, based on treating the Bible — or a woefully poor film adaptation — in a "special" way that no one treats any other plainly written text. I could, for example, use the same "proofs" to show how the above numerology oddness actually "shows," based on all my "mathematical" trickery, that numerology is false!

But even Harold Camping is at least basing his "secret truths," revealed only to the supposedly spiritually enlightened people, on the Bible. Far from his mind are attempts to do the same things with movie scripts not even written by Christian writers ... so far, anyway ...

This is why it's very, very important to discern and enjoy, based on what Scripture reveals for all Christians, how we see other and fictional stories in light of the ultimate and Epic Story that God is telling in reality.