I completely relate to this forum. Tilda Swinton keeps appearing in movies! TVotDT never specifically states that Edmund's dreams have to do with the White Witch, although it sort of makes sense that it would. I always figured the dark island was more of a torture than a temptation. To be honest, who would want their dreams to come to life? I doubt the "it that settled on the mast" would be very tempting to Caspian. If Edmund had a dream about the White Witch, it would most likely be a memory or such, as opposed to her tempting him again. He's past that. As for PC, she wasn't supposed to be there at all. I suppose the hag and werewolf almost succeeding in bringing her to life added action. I fear Tilda Swinton will play the Emerald Witch, which at first I thought was a good time for her to come back into the movies for once. But I read on another forum an excellent point: The White Witch is a temptress, but the Emerald Witch is an enchantress. The White Witch got people to do what she wanted by charisma, where the Emerald Witch had to use magic. Although it would make sense for Her to play the Emerald Witch since they may be "of the same crew."
To be frank, I'm so over the White Witch.

It might just be me but I thought that The Witch appeared in all the books.
Here's what I thought:
In MN, Jadis is herself.
In LWW, as the White Witch.
In PC, the hag that was a friend of Nikabrik was the witch.
In VDT, on the table at Ramandu's Island lays the knife that the Witch used to "kill" Aslan.
In SC, as the Lady of the Green Kirtle.
In HHB, maybe as fear itself, Shasta is very fearfull till he meets Aslan.
In LB, as Tash.

I don't think the WW is the Lady of the Green Kirtle. First off, it specifically states in LWW that the witch dies, and says the same thing again in PC. I know there's that whole deal about bringing her back to life, but the point is they never actually do bring her back to life in PC nor is it ever hinted at in the rest of the books either. Another point which refutes this is that almost immediately after Nikabrikhis companions offer to bring the WW back to life one of the "good guy" characters (sorry, can't remember which) makes the statement that she would come back as "an accursed ghost", and the LOTGK is not a ghost. Also, in SC Glimfeather makes the statement "Long long ago...*talks about the reign of the WW*...And we think this may be some of the same crew". He doesn't say they think she's the same person, he says that they're of a similar "crew". As in they're both witches, and evil, and probably both from the north. But just becuase they share similar qualities doesn't make them the same person. Lastly, I actually read somewhere where Lewis himself stated that they were not the same and were different entities but unfortunately I don't have the link to the article. Personally I think that the WW and the LOTGK are both demon type characters and that Tash really represents the devil but that's just my personal opinion.

Tirian541 wrote:It might just be me but I thought that The Witch appeared in all the books.
Here's what I thought:
In PC, the hag that was a friend of Nikabrik was the witch.
In SC, as the Lady of the Green Kirtle.
In LB, as Tash.

The Hag isn't the WW because she is trying to bring the witch back. The LOTGK isn't anything like the WW and besides she is dead. Tash is the demon-god of the Calorman's and has nothing at all to do with the WW.

The entire purpose for her being destroyed in LWW was to identiry Lucifer being deafeted by the Cross. Though evil pokes it's head up thorughout the Chronicles, The WW in LWW symbolized the ultimate image of evil...Satan... and his grip over human destiny. Likewise, once that figure was defeated, there would be no more reason at all for the White Witch to even appear in Dawn Treader or the Silver Chair.

I believe that it was meant to symbolize Christ's triumph over death by His sacrifice on the cross. It's kind of weird, but I can deal.

For me the idea of her being reawakened in PC book to me has that same effect as her coming back a bit more in the film. In my own Christian journey different times when I've fallen remain weaknesses for a long time, even after I have thought I have beaten it. For example I am capable of holding grudges for a very long time and with God's help I have been able to forgive more than I ever thought I could. But it still creeps up on me from time to time.

I think the white witch represents a raw hunger for power. She tempts Edmund with promises to elevate him above his siblings. In PC they discuss bringing her back when they want the power to defeat Miraz. Her reappearance in the PC didn't bother me as I felt that it was a good visual for what was going on in the hearts and minds of some of the characters in the book. It was the type of adaptation of a book into film that worked for me.

I didn't like her reappearing in VDT as a nightmare to Edmund. Perhaps if he had seen visions of turkish delight...that would have been a more fitting representation. The dialogue between Edmund and WW just seemed forced and ineffective to me.

As a side note. I believe the Lady of the Green Kirtle represents putting too much faith in worldly knowledge.

Maybe they put her in VotD because it actually lacks a decent antagonist. Jadis and Shift are about the only two really brilliant villains in the series.

I think Jadis was a compelling villain in LWW, MN, and even as a potential threat in PC. I just don't think that she belonged in VDT. Its true there is no strong villain in VDT. The antagonists in VDT is the sea itself (facing the unknown, the serpent), and the flaws the characters deal with in themselves (each island can be interpreted as representing one of the seven deadly sins). I would have preferred if those had been allowed to stand on their own. Throwing in the green mist and the WW took away from the character's growth.

The presence of Jadis in VDT didn't bother me as much as it did in PC. In PC, there really was no connection with the story from the book at all. It made no sense to me. In VDT however, it was clear to me that Jadis was not real, but a figment of Edmund's imagination. In other words, Jadis was not in VDT...only Edmund's memory of her. To me, it expressed the effects of sin which - although already forgiven, remained with Edmund afterwards. This isn't so different from someone who has accepted Christ yet still has faults from his/her pre-Christian/pre-sinful past. I thought of St. Paul's comments in Romans about doing things he hates instead of what he real wants to do. It was the same with Edmund. He wanted to do the right thing, but instead he was doing what he hates - considering being king of Narnia with Jadis' help.

I have to sorta disagree with coina. I am a born again christian and there is no such thing in the Bible as (the seven deadly sins). the Seven islands to me did not represent that. Jesus did not say anything as that.

All in all, the White Witch in the movie turned out to be nothing more than an appendage of the green smoke, which is what many people expected. I have to say that her appearance was worse than I expected simply because the green smoke gagged me.
I think I understand why lots of people were troubled by Jadis' frequent appearances in the movies because the most people see her as the Devil to Alsan's Christ. Once Christ was supposed to have defeated him on the cross, he was supposed to have finally conquered Satan there. We could debate, however, that the Devil may be conquered, but he's still around. And since there was no great conquest of Jadis in the Last Battle, we can assume she was not Satan, more like a lesser demon (or a Sauron). Jadis would not be CS Lewis' Devil I think.
(Puddleglum32, I have to say that many people also "don't see" the seven isles as the seven deadly sins. This does not mean that Lewis didn't write them that way. It's probable that he did. He often went for the older Christian lore. So even though you (or even me) might not see the seven isles as the seven deadly sins, they still might represent them. That the seven deadly sins may or may not be Biblical is a bit unrelated.)

I think that while the White Witch "took on Satan's role" at the Stone Table, she is not a strict representation of Satan. In the books, after her death, she never returns. She died. I should mention that Satan did not die. That's the fundamental thing here -- one died, the other did not.

The WW was only a one-time villain in the Chronicles.

[ Yes i think they should not have put the white witch in PC and VDT. At the end of LWW, Asalan killed her, and i think that she does not represent Satan in all of her actions, but like when she killed Asalan on the stone table, that was one.

Ah ha! But there's the rub! Since when is it Satan who kills Christ? Since when is Satan God's executioner in Scripture? Never, that's when. There are several references where Paul (and even Christ) refers to the Law as being in that position of authority and punishment. The Law is the instrument that shows us our fault and shortcoming. Before the Law came, we are innocent, but with the Law comes guilt. I mean, think about it; if there was no rule, there would be no breaking the rule.
Hold on, I'm going to find references. The Law is called the "power" of sin in 1 Cor 15:56. And then "apart from the law, sin lies dead" is Romans 7:8. And the same passage continues talking about how the law accuses us of our sin (hey! Jadis accused Ed! ).
But the passage goes on after that; Paul warns us against blaming the Law for our own shortcomings, saying that we seem to make a bee-line to the Law just to break it. So Jadis as the Law only works to a certain extent. It works because the Law is our accuser and punisher, but it fails because the Law is not our enemy, but our guide to "Aslan".
I'll get sappy and say that our true enemy is not the Law, but rather ourselves.

I do agree that you are right, Satan did not kill Christ. But as I said, I don't think Jadis is a strict representation of Satan, but most certainly is in some elements.

I don't think Jadis represents the Law, though. It is just that the Law says that those who are a traitor to God are now her -- or Satan's -- property.

Yes, in some ways I do think that Jadis does represent the Law; the Law as an instrument of dominance and vengeance. An eye for an eye, or worse, with no chance of forgiveness and saying sorry. Reaping what one sows etc. And yes, the WW in both PC and VDT can be seen as symbolising raw power. Both Peter and Edmund at some stage or other chafe under adult supervision in their real lives, and in Edmund's case he became so resentful of his elder brother, in particular, that he was willing to listen to the WW's blandishments to betray his siblings.

I think that while the White Witch "took on Satan's role" at the Stone Table, she is not a strict representation of Satan. In the books, after her death, she never returns. She died. I should mention that Satan did not die. That's the fundamental thing here -- one died, the other did not.

The WW was only a one-time villain in the Chronicles.

Yes, I agree with you, about WW in LWW, but the hag and the werewolf tried to get her back in PC, the book. The PC film only took this idea a bit further, to enlarge on what the hag said, that you could always get the White Witch back. And also to demonstrate what one of the characters said in PC (book) that WW was a thousand times worse than Miraz.

I think that the WW also works as a nightmare, to Edmund, in particular. Even in VDT the book, it is Edmund who notices the stone knife, and who is most inclined to doubt Lilliandil. And somehow or other the WW will come back in the series, in MN, as her original form, Jadis.

As a side note. I believe the Lady of the Green Kirtle represents putting too much faith in worldly knowledge.

No, not altogether. I think it might be something more subtle than that. I think the Lady of the Green Kirtle represents despair, inaction and hopelessness. That there isn't any other life but what she says it is. She isn't so much faith in worldly knowledge but faith in anything at all.

I also think she represents addiction. Rilian is grief stricken by his mother's death, follows the snake wot did the deed, and finds.... a beautiful lady, a sort of 'green fairy', the nickname of a particularly powerful, sometimes illegal and deadly alcoholic drink. Not too different from those who think alcohol, tobacco or dabbling in other substances can shut out the pain of loss and awareness of the world around them. The changes in Rilian's personality then can become understandable, under LOTGK's influence.

Under her ministrations, imprisoned in her armour and tied to the Silver chair for an hour each day, Rilian forgets who he is, where he comes from and is only aware of his immediate surroundings, just as if he is being drugged in some fashion. And it occurs to me that Rilian always has to be tied up in the Silver Chair right after dinner, when he has partaken of normal healthy food which might dilute the poison the LOTGK is feeding him.

No, LOTGK isn't anything like the White Witch. In some ways she is the complete opposite. Perhaps because she is so insidious, the LOTGK is even worse than Jadis.