Thank you, 220christian, for your kind words about learning Latin.

I have to apologise if I made any historic mistakes. You will notice I edited a previous post to get Geronimus Cornelisz' name right and also the number of passengers on board the Batavia in 1629. That becomes of writing things from memory and not checking one's facts carefully enough.

Prior to that I called the bloke Corneliusz Jansz and that isn't good enough. Happy sailing on the Dawn Treader!

And come to think about it, that is just the point of that journey. Learning to rub along with others. Just because they didn't go on the cruise with Susan and their parents doesn't mean they can't have a wonderful holiday, just the same. And just because Eustace seemed a bit of a pill, doesn't mean he can't change.

Perhaps Lucy and Edmund, as well as Eustace, needed that lesson, that life is largely what one makes of it, and that it is our attitudes which make life enjoyable or not.

I have to apologise if I made any historic mistakes. You will notice I edited a previous post to get Geronimus Cornelisz' name right and also the number of passengers on board the Batavia in 1629. That becomes of writing things from memory and not checking one's facts carefully enough.

It's okay. You don't want to know how many times I've done this with a Bible reference or quote.

And come to think about it, that is just the point of that journey. Learning to rub along with others. Just because they didn't go on the cruise with Susan and their parents doesn't mean they can't have a wonderful holiday, just the same. And just because Eustace seemed a bit of a pill, doesn't mean he can't change.

Perhaps Lucy and Edmund, as well as Eustace, needed that lesson, that life is largely what one makes of it, and that it is our attitudes which make life enjoyable or not.

Interesting. I agree about attitudes and learning to get along with others. You have no idea how many times my attitude about something changed -- for the better -- when my perspective did. But regarding "life is largely what one makes of it," how do you compare this with Reepicheep's sense of destiny, and Caspian's fulfillment of his promise to search for the Seven Missing Lords? These two were almost called to the journey. In one sense, weren't Edmund, Lucy, and Eustace called as well?

Well you might say that Reepicheep has an unshakeable sense of destiny. But wasn't it also his dream to follow to go to the Utter East? This is why Caspian rebelled. Because he, too, had realised there were other things he might want to do besides being King.

Yes, Reepicheep had a calling to do this, something like a sense of Vocation - like wanting to become a doctor. I heard today a man who was supposed to talk about his own childhood at the boarding school we all attended, who instead talked about his recently deceased son, who had an unshakeable vocation to become a doctor. I asked a classmate if he remembered how our class was banned from being taken to the library, due to our naughtiness, but he never remembered this. It was this banning, and my desire to enter this fabled place which eventually led to my training and employment as a librarian, despite my also getting married.

Caspian's promise is something else. It is a solemn Coronation oath which was the reason why he'd build the Dawn Treader in the first place, and why they were all there. A call to duty and to fulfil a promise. That is why his wanting to accompany Reepicheep and the others to the East would be seen as a dereliction of duty.

Yes, Edmund, Lucy and Eustace were called in a way, Eustace despite himself. All three did have a lesson to learn, about how to enjoy themselves and make friends of each other. But I think their presence was to help Caspian on his way also, as his friends and equals. To stand up to him whenever necessary, to remind him that he also was human and to also to teach Caspian that even kings need to do their job, work as part of a team and to value the friendship they had.

The Dawn Treader led Caspian to Ramandu's daughter, and no doubt she was a solace to him. But without what he learned about friendship in his expedition, how would he have treated Drinian later on, when not only did Caspian lose his wife, but also his son Rilian?

Isn't the quote something like this---
"I have lost my wife and my son! Shall I lose my friend also?" said Caspian. And he fell upon the Lord Drinian's neck and embraced him and both wept, and so their friendship was not broken.

I think the best part of the story is how Eustace (like Edmund in LWW) is redeemed from his old selfish self. Lewis really made that part a bit more graphic than other parts in Narnia, what with the whole "dragoning" of Eustace and how he has to have Aslan make him a boy again because he can't do it on his own. it's a really incredible redemption! and from what I've been hearing, I think they are going to extend this part in the movie! yay!
it's a lot like Skillet's song, "Monster"! just read the chorus:
"I feel it deep within/it's just beneath the skin/I must confess that I feel like a monster/I hate what I've become/the nightmare's just begun/I must confess that I feel like a monster/I, I feel like a monster/I,I feel like a monster....."
(that song should go in the credits at the end of VotDT! lol! )

I posted some of this in "Christianity, Religion, and Philosophy." But I thought it applied here as well. Lady Aethelwyne and I were discussing "want."

Driving to work, I thought about the 10 commandments and how so many of them are driven by wants. ... "I believe that WANT, otherwise known as Greed, is the sin that drives all other sins. I want a nice home and car- Covet. I want your husband- Adultery. I want to get out of trouble- Lie. I want to be my own boss and have power and glory- Other Gods. I want what I can't afford- Steal. The seven sins- Lust, Sloth, Gluttony, Pride, Envy, even Wrath, are all brought about by Greed for something. Food, sleep, sex, power."

I don't think "want" is a bad thing. It's human. If you don't want/desire something, are you even alive? We're designed to want! To be obsessed with something! The problem is, our sinful nature wants everything wrong. When we convert to Jesus, we suddenly want and are obsessed with HIM. "Blessed are those who HUNGER and THIRST for righteousness, for they shall be filled" [Matthew 5]. The key is desperation. But we must be desperate for, obsessed with, want, and desire [it's all the same ] God and God alone! Sin is wanting everything else BUT God.

So how does this apply to VDT? Reepicheep wants ONE thing: to see Aslan's Country. I think his desire is righteous. But what about the others' wants? Edmund, Lucy, Eustace, King Caspian, the crew of the Dawn Treader?

(edited)

I've always been attached to the last scene in the book. The one where Aslan changes from lamb into lion and then goes on to tell Edmund and Lucy that the must learn to know him in our world. I doubt it will make it into the movie as it is a rather blatant Christian theme. But one can always dream.

Carissa, I'm curious what in the book made you think of sanctification?

Yes, God the Son is often depicted as a Lamb and in the Holy Latin Mass there is a part that goes "Agnus Dei...." which means Lamb of God. Producers nowadays have a sort of dislike of Christianity and will probrably dispose of that scene.

3. Lion/Lamb,
This whole sequence must be kept intact as it is in the book, if any changes were made they must be to enhance on what Lewis was saying. (Not changing it, but enchancing- can't stress that enough).

I'd call that Christian reference Numero Uno. They cannot, I repeat, NOT cut that scene out of the movie. But, by leaving it in--- that oculd cause worse problems then having it out. Who knows, they could have the lamb a part of a flock with a shepard in it... Making it meaningless. Still, that's all plain paranoia. I'm confident that scene will be there.

In LWW we have Aslan dying for the traitor/sinner, Edmund. But now we have him restoring and renewing, (yes that's implied for Edmund but now we get to see it).

I wholeheartedly agree with you. The dragon scene is yet another very important theme of the book-- and, as others have stated, the Christian meaning behind it is key to the movie adaption to be truly successful.

If they put the lamb scene in the movie it could cause controversy as a too meaningful Christian reference and possibly get the movie unwanted comments, but I think they should put it in, only they would have to make it more subtle in it's meaning. Skandar Keynes is an atheist, so I wonder how he would react to the scene if it was put in the movie.

I think one thing that needs to follow the book closely is the situation of Eustace and the bracelet that gets stuck on his arm. It would be so easy for the filmmakers to turn it into "A magic bracelet that turns whoever wears it into a dragon". If they did that, it would be wrong for two reasons --

1. It was not the bracelet that turned Eustace into a dragon. It was the greed in his heart, and the dragonish thoughts in his head.

2. I believe the bracelet is a symbol of Eustace's greed, and the guilt he has from treating everyone so abominably in the past. During his time as a dragon, he is pained by the bracelet cutting into his arm, just as he is pained by the guilt cutting into his heart. And then, after he is undragoned and made into a new creation, the bracelet (and his guilt) is thrown far off where no one can ever reach it again.

If the filmmakers toss aside the bracelet's symbolic nature, and turn it into a mere "magic piece of jewelry" that turns people into dragons, it will ruin a great allegory that C.S. Lewis portrayed so perfectly in the book.

~Riella

For sure, these 5:

1.) Eustace and his transformation from the dragon into his boy form only through his penence and understanding of his wrongs for forgiveness of Aslan. Lewis used this to personify that God's grace can only be given, not earned. And to think the producers were talking about having him fight the sea serpent! wow.

2.) The encounter with the lamb at the End of the World (last chapter), when it speaks, " There is a way into my country from all the worlds," and changes into Aslan. Lewis did not mean that all roads lead to Heaven, but more pointedly, that anyone, regardless of race or creed or circumstance, can find forgiveness and grace, and the door which is Jesus Christ...which leads to God's Kingdom. I hope they get this right and not twist the meaning. It is so very important.

3.) I hope they put in the conversation between Lucy and Ramandu about how he is "a star at rest". I believe Lewis meant this to symbolize our souls at rest until the great awakening when we meet Christ in the air. It has such beautiful conotations.

4.)The Magic Book meaning. Now I hope they dont turn this into a Harry Potter potion thing. I hope they reflect its true meaning in that our human nature sees what it wants, and not what it needs. But I imagine they will mess that up, being so "complicated" of an issue. lol.

5.) Lastly, the sacred conversation at the end of the book. We all know it. Where Aslan says to Lucy that she will need to learn to know Him by another name in her world. In my opinion, this has to be word-for-word, otherwise the entire meaing of the Chronicles is lost.

There are a lot more I could elaborate on, but these 5 are important in my book.

I think the most important Christian theme should be trusting Aslan and fulfilling your destiney, and that you can only get to that destiny through Aslan, by redemption.

I have always been so emotional with the scene where Aslan was sacrificed. I usually remember Jesus sacrificing for us because of his love for everyone. Aslan brought back this scene and made me feel even more emotional whenever I remember Jesus and Aslan sacrificing their life for love.

Sacrifice is a big word. I was told that you usually sacrifice because you love or need someone(or something). You wouldn't do it if you were selfish and not loving.

^^ Whatever the message it is, it surely tell us one thing: That the only forgiveness and salvation will receive if we do believe and trust on the good thing. Aslan shows it on the movie and on the book, and Jesus Christ also shown it to us when He lay down his life for mankind and for our sins. Every sinner will be forgiven if we accept Christ in our life and becomes a true believer of His salvation to us. So, that's the reason why I am always watching the Narnia movies many times. And since the third movie will fall on Christmas season, I'm going to treat my brothers and sister in watching the movie on 3D!...God bless...