Wow, that's something I've never really considered, but now that you say that, I think I would agree. Just out of curiosity, do you think that Lewis was referring to their appearance or their personality being least like men? Or both?

Probably both at least a little bit, but I think he was talking about looks a little more, just because the story Mr. Beaver was telling was more about creatures that look human but aren't. But I'm sure something about their personalities had something to do with it too.

I had never noticed that untill now, but looking back I do suppose you have a point! I had always assumed that this was unimportant side chat. Poggin did look more like a man though....

I dunno, the White Witch's Dwarf doesn't look very human...

So, in Narnia, when it comes to dwarves, the ones that look the most human are the most evil, and the ones who look the least human are the nicest. Trumpkin is nice and kind, therfore he can't look human like most other dwarves do.

This claim seems to be in direct opposition to Lewis' logic and principles. By making this claim, you're making the claim that looks are more important than principles. I can't believe that Mrs. Beaver meant that the way a person looks influences their behaviour. She and Lewis must have meant that those who acted least like men (the men of Calormen, the men of Telmar. . . ) were the best sort of dwarves.

Using illustrations to prove a point gets really sketchy really quickly. Lucy has blonde hair in the books, but black hair in the illustrations. Caspian's hair changes colour from PC to VODT. Likely the differences in drawing styles are mere coincidence, nothing more.

yes i sure hope there coincidental.

This claim seems to be in direct opposition to Lewis' logic and principles. By making this claim, you're making the claim that looks are more important than principles. I can't believe that Mrs. Beaver meant that the way a person looks influences their behaviour.

Actually, it's Mr. Beaver who says that, and Mrs. Beaver questions it.

"... there isn't a drop of real human blood in the witch."
"That's why she's bad all through, Mr. Beaver," said Mrs. Beaver.
"True enough, Mrs. Beaver," replied he, "there may be two views about humans (meaning no offence to the present company). But there's no two views about things that look like humans and aren't."
"I've known good dwarves," said Mrs. Beaver.
"So've I, now you come to speak of it," said her husband, "but precious few, and they were the ones least like men..."

Nope, they were definitely talking about looks.

Of course Lewis wouldn't be making this claim about people in our world, but in fantasy/mythology the way people and other creatures look often reflects their i characters- though looks being deceiving is also a common theme.

Also note that Mr. Beaver says that most Dwarves* are bad- he's making a judgment on an entire race, which he says can be seen in their appearance.

The good/bad divide in PC seems to fall along the Red Dwarf/Black Dwarf division, though that is not mentioned in later books.

Mr. Beaver could of course be prejudiced- the Black Dwarfs, at least, are allied with the White Witch- in PC Nikabrik says she treated Dwarfs well

* Is that the spelling in the book?

Just like to continue on and point out that in fantasy, unlike our world, different races really do have different characteristics.

Dwarfs are hardy, like mining and living underground and are great craftsmen- they're also generally considered to be prone to greed, materialism, and clannishness. They're just made that way, like rabbits are timid and monkeys are curious.

Remember the different traits of the races in The Space Trilogy?

Nope, they were definitely talking about looks.

How can you possibly make this grand inferrence from that one line of text? It's a logical assumption. . . nothing more. "Least Like Men" could mean a MILLION different things. Least-Like-Men's Personality. Least-Like-Men's Appearance. Least-Like-Men's Battle Style. Least-Like-Men's Style of Dress. Least-Like-Men's Taste for Potatoes! You can't just assume that it fits the category of "looks." To do so is an injustice to the text, and really goes against what Lewis thought of appearances.

Bcause that's the line from Mr. Beaver directly before it, and it's the only comparison he makes. If there's somewhere in there where he talks about battle-styles, dress sense, or taste in food, I fail to see it.

He didn't say "dress like humans but aren't", "fight like humans but aren't", or "cook like humans but aren't", he said "look like humans but aren't".

Mrs. Beaver replies to this with "I've known good Dwarfs". This is not a sentence thrown in at random; it's an objection she's making to Mr. Beaver for reaching conclusions based on appearances

Why Dwarfs? Why not fauns, or foxes, or centaurs? Because Dwarfs are the creatures that look most like humans.

Mr. Beaver's comment on the good Dwarfs being "least like Men"is a counter rebuttal to his wife's point that some Dwarfs are good even though they look like humans

I am not saying that that isn't one possible interpretation of the text, but one has to ask oneself if it is the only interpretation that is possible. Merely saying that Line B goes with Line A; end of story, is not a good way to read a text critically. Can Line B go with Line A? Of course it could. . . but it doesn't have to.

Another thing you have to consider is that the Beaver's have absolutely no grounds on making this comparison:

We've heard of Aslan coming to these parts before - long ago, nobody can say when. But there's never been any of your great race here at the time.

Not often here, you understand; never in my time or my father's time.

These two lines can be linked because they explicitly deal with one theme; the coming of Aslan. Mrs. Beaver also claims that humans haven't been in Narnia at the time of Aslan. As Aslan hasn't been around in either of their lifetime, it is not illogical for one to assume that Human's have never been in Narnia in their lifetime.

This would also make sense as Tumnus had no idea what a human was, and says that Lucy was the first he had ever met (and doubtless he was older than either of the beavers).

So not only does to quote not make sense in the context of the book itself (and was likely an oversight by Lewis), but it also goes against his personal opinion of what appearances meant. Mythology aside; Lewis held the same belief held by most Christians today - that it's the inside that matters. We see this theme broadcast several times throughout the Chronicles. We see it with Lucy on the Magician's Island, we see it with Jadis (beautiful but evil), we see it with Susan (who's outer beauty becomes more important to her than Narnia itself). Those are only three examples; I can think of several more. For Lewis to do a 180 and say that the way a dwarf looks is the only way of judging whether it's good or whether its bad, is absolute rubbish. It makes no logical, moral, or literary sense.

For one thing, I don't agree with the point made by Ithilwen, hence my first comment on the Witch's Dwarf.

Second, it's not a comment by Lewis, it's a comment by Mr. Beaver, which Mrs. Beaver immediately corrects him on- and as you point out, how would he know?

I think the essence of this is not about appearance, it's about deceit- things that are trying to pass themselves off as human but are not.

The next sentence:

"But in general, take my advice, when you meet anything that's going to be human and isn't yet, or used to be human once and isn't now, or ought to be human and isn't, you keep your eyes on it and feel for your hatchet.'

(Though I wonder about something "that's going to be human and isn't yet")

This claim seems to be in direct opposition to Lewis' logic and principles. By making this claim, you're making the claim that looks are more important than principles.

Whoa, whoa, wait a minute. Where did I say looks are more important than principles? As far as I know, I didn't. It wouldn't make much sense for me to say something like that either, since it's not something I believe, and I know it's something that C.S. Lewis didn't believe. Principles, of course, are more important than looks.

The only point I'm making is that the outward appearance of some of the characters could be something the author chose to use as an outward sign of an inward quality. A reflection on the outside, of something that is on the inside. It wouldn't be the first time it's been used in literature. A lot of authors will give their villains "villinous appearances" such as hook noses, yellowy eyes, etc; just as they'll give the heroes certain looks. I've seen books where all the good characters had blond hair, and all the villains had red hair, or black hair. Not that the author is saying people in real life are villainous if they have those hair colors or appearances. it's just a thing that happens in the story, and the story alone. And I know C.S. Lewis for sure used it in other parts -- he made his good heroes fair-skinned and light-haired for the most part, and the evil Calormenes to have dark skin and hair. Not that I'm saying C.S. Lewis was prejudice, because I don't believe he was. But as I said, authors do sometimes choose a certain look for the villains, and a certain look for the heroes.

And I stand by my theory that the good dwarves have a slightly odd look, whereas the bad ones have a slightly more human look. That's what it sounds like the Beavers are saying when I read that passage. I'm not saying "Oh yeah, I'm totally 100% right, and everyone better agree with me, so there!" or anything. It's just my opinion. It's just something that I found interesting, so I thought I would share it with all of you, in case you guys found it interesting too.

And Greymouser, you're right -- the bad dwarves don't look completely human, but the point is they look more human than the good dwarves do. Compare a picture of Trumpkin with a picture of Nikabrik or the Witch's dwarf. You can see a definite difference there.

And although not all of the illustrations will look 100% like the things in the book, C.S. Lewis did say, when he saw the illustrations, that it all looked just as he pictured it. And the original illustrations he saw were in black and white, so it's very hard to tell from those what someone's hair color is. Although, Lucy's hair actually looked blond to me -- especially in the picture of her in PC, Chapter 2, when they're in the Treasure House.

~Riella