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Where did Polly put her two rings in Magician's Nephew?

coracle
(@coracle)
NarniaWeb's Auntie Moderator

This occurred to me as I began re-reading the book this week.

I hear you say, "In her pockets", but did you know that in Edwardian and late Victorian times women's clothes did not have pockets, and nor did girls' ones (unless they had a very enlightened dressmaker!)

Girls had to make do with something like a waist-bag [like the modern bumbag/fannypack, excuse the expressions].

What do you think?  Is this simply a gap in Jack Lewis's knowledge of girls' clothing?

 

There, shining in the sunrise, larger than they had seen him before, shaking his mane (for it had apparently grown again) stood Aslan himself.
"...when a willing victim who had committed no treachery was killed in a traitor's stead, the Table would crack and Death itself would start working backwards."

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Topic starter Posted : April 16, 2021 1:56 pm
daughter of the King
(@dot)
Princess Dot Moderator

Oh! I actually know a very tiny bit about this. Giggle

First, the waist-bags you are describing were actually called pockets. Modern literature generally specifies them as "tie-on" pockets, but at the time there was no differentiation. Also, women's pockets shifted from the "tie-on" pockets to sewn-in pockets probably somewhere between 1840 and 1870, but the tie-on pockets were still sometimes used. Since MN takes place in 1899, Polly could theoretically have had either.

I knew some of that already, but a dress historian recently did a video on the evolution of pockets where she covers this.

It is also entirely conceivable that Lewis just didn't know about the pocket discourse (complaints about the limitations of pockets are not a new thing!).

ahsokasig
Narniaweb sister to Pattertwig's Pal

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Posted : April 16, 2021 3:50 pm
Glenwit
(@glenwit)
NarniaWeb Nut
Posted by: @dot

 

It is also entirely conceivable that Lewis just didn't know about the pocket discourse (complaints about the limitations of pockets are not a new thing!).

Can confirm, I didn't realize until very recently what barbarically small pockets women/girls have to put up with. 

This is the journey
This is the trial
For the hero inside us all
I can hear adventure call
Here we go

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Posted : April 16, 2021 5:03 pm
The Rose-Tree Dryad
(@rose)
Secret Garden Agent Moderator

Barbaric is a good word for it, @Glenwit. LOL

That was a very informative and amusing video, @Dot.  Right now all I can think about is that C.S. Lewis was so ahead of his time that he somehow sensed the "It has pockets!!" memes of the future. Giggle

The rings-in-the-pockets element is such a central component to Polly and Digory's adventures and I really hope the costuming department for the upcoming film/series doesn't cop-out and have Polly wear a pair of trousers. You can go on interplanetary adventures in dresses, too. Tongue

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Posted : April 17, 2021 10:56 am
DiGoRyKiRkE
(@digorykirke)
The Logical Ornithological Mod Moderator
Posted by: @rose

That was a very informative and amusing video, @Dot.  Right now all I can think about is that C.S. Lewis was so ahead of his time that he somehow sensed the "It has pockets!!" memes of the future. Giggle

And all I can think of now is Gollum asking about "pocketses." Giggle  

Honestly, I always kind of assumed that Polly would have worn a typical frilly Victorian dress (the Bayne's illustrations portray it very well) and that somewhere in the lining thereof, there would have been a small pocket for. . . something.

Definintely an interesting, albeit unexpected thing to find in here being discussed.

Member of Ye Olde NarniaWeb

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Posted : April 21, 2021 1:47 pm
Cobalt Jade
(@cobalt-jade)
NarniaWeb Nut

I always assumed she wore a smock or pinafore over her clothes which had pockets. If she was playing outside, or helping her mother with the housework, she would have worn one.

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Posted : April 22, 2021 4:54 pm
Courtenay liked
coracle
(@coracle)
NarniaWeb's Auntie Moderator

@cobalt-jade This is the most likely correct answer. Baynes' pictures put Polly in a 'sailor suit' dress, with no pinafore. I suspect that if she was playing up in the attic, getting her pinny dirty would be less trouble than her dress.

There, shining in the sunrise, larger than they had seen him before, shaking his mane (for it had apparently grown again) stood Aslan himself.
"...when a willing victim who had committed no treachery was killed in a traitor's stead, the Table would crack and Death itself would start working backwards."

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Topic starter Posted : April 22, 2021 6:13 pm
Courtenay liked
KingEdTheJust
(@kingedthejust)
NarniaWeb Nut

I was also re-reading the Magician's Nephew and while I was reading I have a guess that Polly's dress has only one pocket on the left hand side. 

If I tried to stretch across and get my right
hand into my left pocket I mightn't be able to reach it, - Magician's Nephew 

Polly didn't just put her hand in her right pocket with her right hand because that would've been easier, but instead she tried to reach her right hand into her left pocket concluding her dress had one pocket. 

"But even a traitor may mend. I have known one that did." - (King Edmund the Just, Horse and his Boy)

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Posted : April 23, 2021 7:56 pm
daughter of the King
(@dot)
Princess Dot Moderator
Posted by: @kingedthejust

I was also re-reading the Magician's Nephew and while I was reading I have a guess that Polly's dress has only one pocket on the left hand side. 

If I tried to stretch across and get my right
hand into my left pocket I mightn't be able to reach it, - Magician's Nephew 

Polly didn't just put her hand in her right pocket with her right hand because that would've been easier, but instead she tried to reach her right hand into her left pocket concluding her dress had one pocket. 

There's a bit earlier in the book that explains this. Polly and Digory intentionally put the yellow rings in their left pockets and the green ones in their right. Jadis is holding her left hand, so she would have to reach with her right to get the yellow ring. So, Polly has pockets on both sides.

However, this made me look up the bit when she gets the toffee out of her pocket for dinner:

"I say," said Polly, "I've still got the remains of that bag of toffee in my jacket. It'll be better than nothing."

"A lot better," said Digory, "but be careful to get your hand into your pocket without touching your ring."

So, Polly put the rings in her jacket pockets rather than skirt, pinafore, or a tie-on.

ahsokasig
Narniaweb sister to Pattertwig's Pal

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Posted : April 23, 2021 8:32 pm
coracle
(@coracle)
NarniaWeb's Auntie Moderator

Her jacket?!

Just goes to show how much influence the illustrations have on our idea of them.

Edit:

What edition is yours? 

I've just checked my 1973 edition, and it says,"..in my pocket."  (Not jacket)

There, shining in the sunrise, larger than they had seen him before, shaking his mane (for it had apparently grown again) stood Aslan himself.
"...when a willing victim who had committed no treachery was killed in a traitor's stead, the Table would crack and Death itself would start working backwards."

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Topic starter Posted : April 23, 2021 10:11 pm
waggawerewolf27
(@waggawerewolf27)
Member Hospitality Committee

@ KingEdTheJust: I was also re-reading the Magician's Nephew and while I was reading I have a guess that Polly's dress has only one pocket on the left hand side.

 

If my memory serves me, I always had a pocket on the right hand side. Especially as in those days we were encouraged to be right-handed. It was worse at the beginning of the century. Boys always had lots of pockets, to hide in them everything from skinks to marbles. But girls weren't supposed to do such things. 

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Posted : April 24, 2021 5:23 am
Courtenay
(@courtenay)
NarniaWeb Fanatic Hospitality Committee

For some reason, as I'm reading this discussion, I keep getting the Polly Pocket jingle (from the TV ads of the '80s and 90s) stuck in my head... Grin  

That aside, it's a very interesting topic and something I know I didn't even stop to think about when I first read the Narnia books, as most of my clothes had pockets and I never stopped to think there was a time when girls and women didn't have that luxury!

The Magician's Nephew is set in 1900, when Lewis himself was a toddler (he was born in 1898). So he's writing about an era that he himself knew, if only through a very young child's eyes. I'm guessing, though, that as a small boy he possibly never stopped to notice whether or not girls had pockets in their dresses or aprons, and writing MN some 55 years later, he might not even have thought about that factor, but just assumed they did!

I'm going with @cobalt-jade's suggestion that Polly wore a pinafore or smock with pockets in it, which would definitely help to keep her dress clean if she was playing outside or in the attic, both of which she does during the story. That seems pretty natural for the time period while allowing the plot to work!

Posted by: @dot

So, Polly put the rings in her jacket pockets rather than skirt, pinafore, or a tie-on.

Ah, now that's interesting... my 1973 Puffin edition says "pocket" there, but my 1998 Collins edition says "jacket". I'm guessing the latter must be a misprint that got in somehow. I really can't picture a late Victorian / borderline Edwardian era girl wearing a "jacket" of any description! Unless she was several decades ahead of her time, fashion-wise... Giggle  

"Now you are a lioness," said Aslan. "And now all Narnia will be renewed."
(Prince Caspian)

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Posted : April 24, 2021 6:08 am
daughter of the King
(@dot)
Princess Dot Moderator
Posted by: @coracle

I've just checked my 1973 edition, and it says,"..in my pocket."  (Not jacket)

Posted by: @courtenay

Ah, now that's interesting... my 1973 Puffin edition says "pocket" there, but my 1998 Collins edition says "jacket".

Intriguing. I went and looked it up in all of my copies: 1970 Collier says "pocket", 2000 Harper Trophy Edition says "jacket", 1994 Harper says "jacket", and 2004 Harper omnibus says "jacket". Does anyone have a copy of a first edition?

Posted by: @courtenay

I really can't picture a late Victorian / borderline Edwardian era girl wearing a "jacket" of any description!

I actually spent several minutes looking up fashion plates and pictures of late 1890s and early 1900s children's clothing last night because I kept thinking about what Polly's jacket might have looked like. Giggle They did wear jackets, but most of the images I've seen show jackets in more formal wear rather than informal play clothes that Polly was probably wearing. Also, Polly actually had the opportunity to change clothes because she went home after they brought Jadis to London. And apparently she was sent to bed because she rejoins Digory "the moment she was allowed out of bed."

ahsokasig
Narniaweb sister to Pattertwig's Pal

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Posted : April 24, 2021 3:47 pm
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