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Narnia in the Bible

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coracle
(@coracle)
NarniaWeb's Auntie Moderator

I do not agree with your book on this point.

I have never been reminded of the cycle of oppression and deliverance in Prince Caspian, in spite of first reading Narnia while studying English Lit at University, Nor did it suggest itself during my theology degree. 

The history of the Israelite people was specifically of the effects of disobedience and obedience to their God. When they did not worship Him alone, and follow His rules, He allowed other nations to conquer them. When they did trust and follow Him, they flourished.

This pattern is not seen in the Narnia stories.

What we do see is thousands of years of its history, with interactions between the 👄  Beasts and their human Kings & Queens, and with Aslan. Intermittently human children from our world are sent in to help and to learn.

Edit: There are only two nations who oppressed or invaded Narnia, the Telmarines and the Calormenes, and this was due to their own choice, not Narnian ones. The two individual evil characters the White Witch and Lady of the Green Kirtle (LOTGK) were not like the nations who oppressed Israel. 

There, shining in the sunrise, larger than they had seen him before, shaking his mane (for it had apparently grown again) stood Aslan himself.
"...when a willing victim who had committed no treachery was killed in a traitor's stead, the Table would crack and Death itself would start working backwards."

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Posted : August 21, 2022 1:57 pm
Jasmine
(@jasmine_tarkheena)
NarniaWeb Guru

@coracle 

Well, I didn't have a degree in theology, though I've studied some in high school as a homeschooler.

In The Horse And His Boy, when Shasta asks Aslan, "What is your name?", Aslan says, "Myself." God often referred to Himself as "I am." He referred to Himself as "I am who I am." Not "Who I was" or "Who Am I going to be" but "I am who I am."

"And this is the marvel of marvels, that he called me beloved."
(Emeth, The Last Battle)
https://escapetoreality.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/aslan-and-emeth2.jpg

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Posted : August 21, 2022 2:44 pm
Courtenay
(@courtenay)
NarniaWeb Fanatic Hospitality Committee
Posted by: @coracle

I do not agree with your book on this point.

I have never been reminded of the cycle of oppression and deliverance in Prince Caspian, in spite of first reading Narnia while studying English Lit at University, Nor did it suggest itself during my theology degree. 

This is what I'm trying to get at too, and what I also thought in response to that quote from A Family Guide to Narnia (which, to be fair, I haven't read, so I can't comment on the book as a whole).

While of course the Chronicles of Narnia are deeply infused with Lewis's Christian faith, they are not deliberately patterned on specific Biblical stories and events. Narnia and its history are not supposed to be read as a fantasy parallel of ancient Israel and its history. Characters and events in Narnia DON'T have counterparts in the Bible and/or in human history that Lewis intended us as readers to look for and figure out, as if the books were a puzzle to be decoded. Yes, Aslan is meant to be the same Son of God who came to our world, but Lewis is imagining the one Saviour at work in a different world. Trying to read a specific Biblical reference into every aspect of Narnia is, to me, missing the whole point of the Chronicles.

Seriously, if I'd grown up with a family (or Sunday School) where, while reading the Narnia books, we were being asked at every turn "Now which Bible story or character does this remind us of? Now how do we see God at work like this in the history of Israel or somewhere else in our world?"... I reckon that stuff would have just totally put me off both Narnia and the Bible, to be honest. I'd have felt preached at and told what to think, which is never an effective way of bringing anyone closer to Christ, in my own experience.

And in the meantime, if I was having these constant badly-fitting interpretations overlaid on the Chronicles by parents or religion teachers, I don't know if there would have been much room left for the Narnia stories themselves to speak to me as they are, for what they are, in their own right. Which is what they actually did for me as a child — one who wasn't raised in any religion and who grew up not knowing anyone who took God or Jesus or Bible stories seriously, but when I read the Narnia books, they, and especially the character of Aslan, spoke to me in a way nothing else ever quite had.

That special thrill I got from the Chronicles was something that stayed with me — even buried deep down when, for many years, I thought I'd lost it forever — until I unmistakably found Him as a young adult, and now the Narnia books mean more to me than ever before. But I honestly don't think they could have worked that (Deeper?) magic on me as a child if I'd had grown-ups telling me, however well-meaningly, what I "should" be finding in these books. Let alone drawing comparisons between them and the Bible that any smart kid would be able to see are flimsy at best.

What I'm saying, in short, is: this kind of approach to "Narnia in the Bible" is fallacious, it's against the author's expressed intentions, it could seriously detract from the deeper point of the Chronicles, and I really would not recommend promoting it. If I had children of my own, or Sunday School students that I was introducing to Narnia, I would just let them read the books themselves — or we could read them together, but with no added commentary from me unless the kids wanted to ask questions on their own initiative — and just let Lewis's work speak for itself. It does, you know, truly. Smile  

"Now you are a lioness," said Aslan. "And now all Narnia will be renewed."
(Prince Caspian)

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Posted : August 21, 2022 3:17 pm
Jasmine liked
Jasmine
(@jasmine_tarkheena)
NarniaWeb Guru

@courtenay 

Asking questions is a good thing. When I did Narnia in Sunday school, the two girls would ask me questions. It's good opportunity for open discussion. And it's also good for homeschoolers as well.

Also, the Bible, especially in the Old Testament, and Narnia are full of names you probably wouldn't hear in our day and age. In the Old Testament, names like Enoch or Nimrod or Mephibosheth or Ahab or Jezebel or Manasseh or Jael or Sisera, ect.

In Narnia, I'm sure that non of us would name our child Jadis or Caspian or Miraz or Trumpkin or Puddleglum or Rabadash or Rishda or Aravis or Ahoshta or Lasaraleen or Glozelle or Sospesian or Prunaprismia.

"And this is the marvel of marvels, that he called me beloved."
(Emeth, The Last Battle)
https://escapetoreality.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/aslan-and-emeth2.jpg

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Posted : August 21, 2022 3:25 pm
Col Klink
(@col-klink)
NarniaWeb Junkie
Posted by: @jasmine_tarkheena

Well, I didn't have a degree in theology, though I've studied some in high school as a homeschooler.

In The Horse And His Boy, when Shasta asks Aslan, "What is your name?", Aslan says, "Myself." God often referred to Himself as "I am." He referred to Himself as "I am who I am." Not "Who I was" or "Who Am I going to be" but "I am who I am."

I don't think Coracle meant that wasn't a parallel, Jasmine. Smile I don't think anyone, even Courtenay, has said there are no parallels She just mean that Christine Ditchfield's proposed Parallel between the Narnia books and the book of Judges was rather forced.

Posted by: @jasmine_tarkheena

Also, the Bible, especially in the Old Testament, and Narnia are full of names you probably wouldn't hear in our day and age. In the Old Testament, names like Enoch or Nimrod or Mephibosheth or Ahab or Jezebel or Manasseh or Jael or Sisera, ect.

In Narnia, I'm sure that non of us would name our child Jadis or Caspian or Miraz or Trumpkin or Puddleglum or Rabadash or Rishda or Aravis or Ahoshta or Lasaraleen or Glozelle or Sospesian or Prunaprismia.

OK, I give up, what's the connection between this and the post you were responding to? Giggle  

For better or worse-for who knows what may unfold from a chrysalis?-hope was left behind.
-The God Beneath the Sea by Leon Garfield & Edward Blishen check out my new blog!

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Posted : August 21, 2022 3:51 pm
Courtenay liked
Jasmine
(@jasmine_tarkheena)
NarniaWeb Guru

@col-klink 

Names actually do have meanings. For instance, my name is Jasmine and it means "Gift from God."

Names like Peter means "Rock" and Lucy means "Light."

"Aslan" is a Turkish word for "lion", and given that one of the names for Jesus is "Lion of the Tribe of Judah".

 

"And this is the marvel of marvels, that he called me beloved."
(Emeth, The Last Battle)
https://escapetoreality.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/aslan-and-emeth2.jpg

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Posted : August 21, 2022 4:04 pm
coracle
(@coracle)
NarniaWeb's Auntie Moderator

@jasmine_tarkheena I think you are saying here that the unfamiliar names (which we would probably not use) of the Narnia stories and the Bible usually have a meaning? 

@col-klink That exchange between Aslan and Shasta is very special. Not only does it remind us of "I Am", the name of God in the Bible (and used in Jesus' "I am the ___" sayings), but it shows three aspects of God, Father Son and Holy Spirit.  If a child or adult reader does not know anything about the Bible, this is a little introduction for them. 

Perhaps what matters most is that a reader does not need to know the Bible before reading Narnia. It is a way for them to understand ideas and feelings, which we hope they will recognise one day in the Bible.

There, shining in the sunrise, larger than they had seen him before, shaking his mane (for it had apparently grown again) stood Aslan himself.
"...when a willing victim who had committed no treachery was killed in a traitor's stead, the Table would crack and Death itself would start working backwards."

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Posted : August 21, 2022 4:25 pm
Courtenay liked
Jasmine
(@jasmine_tarkheena)
NarniaWeb Guru
Posted by: @coracle

That exchange between Aslan and Shasta is very special. Not only does it remind us of "I Am", the name of God in the Bible (and used in Jesus' "I am the ___" sayings), but it shows three aspects of God, Father Son and Holy Spirit.  If a child or adult reader does not know anything about the Bible, this is a little introduction for them. 

The trinity is a very hard concept to grasp. Having been in children's ministry for a while, we have often use an egg as example: the shell, the whites, and yolk. There are three parts, but still one egg.

Aslan saying "Myself" three times each in a different voice ("deep and low"- God the Father, "loud and clear"- God the Son, and "a whisper"- God the Holy Spirit). Three different voices, one Character as a picture of One God, Three persons.

So using a visual aid is a good teaching tool to help understand what would otherwise be hard.

 

"And this is the marvel of marvels, that he called me beloved."
(Emeth, The Last Battle)
https://escapetoreality.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/aslan-and-emeth2.jpg

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Posted : August 21, 2022 4:40 pm
coracle liked
Jasmine
(@jasmine_tarkheena)
NarniaWeb Guru

As for Narnia and the Bible, Voyage of the Dawn Treader has the most human story out of the seven books in the series. Each of the characters struggle within themselves.

Caspian struggles with wanting to be the richest king of Narnia at the pond that turns everything to gold. There was a part of him that wanted to be the richest king, and another part of him that didn't.

Lucy struggles with wanting to be beautiful like Susan, if not more beautiful. There was a part of her that wanted to recite the spell, and another part of her that didn't.

There's a passage in Romans 7, where the apostle Paul said that there's a part of him that wants to live a godly Christian life, and another part of him that want to do sinful things. It's of human nature that Christians still want to do sinful things.

"And this is the marvel of marvels, that he called me beloved."
(Emeth, The Last Battle)
https://escapetoreality.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/aslan-and-emeth2.jpg

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Posted : October 12, 2022 9:19 am
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