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[Closed] Digory and Polly vs. Eustace and Jill

stateofgreen
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I'm confessing that I'm reading the Magician's Nephew as if it were the first time reading it. I didn't really read it word for word when I was a kid and didn't care much for it then because it didn't have the Pevensies in it. I think I'm actually starting to "get it" a bit better now. :)

I'm at the point in the book after Digory has rung the bell and inadvertently brought Jadis into London. What I'm really a little bit surprised at is how Digory and Polly talk to each other. They actually come off a bit "meaner"/"brattier" to each other than Eustace and Jill seemed to in Silver Chair. At least that's my first impression. Anyone else think so? I don't know if this will change for me by the time I finish the book though.


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Topic starter Posted : April 11, 2011 5:46 pm
Dernhelm_of_Rohan
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It does change throughout the book; at the scene you're at, Digory and Polly's worst sides come up. They go back to being much friendlier. ;)


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Posted : April 12, 2011 5:51 am
DOECOG
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At some parts they can be a bit rude to each other, but they’re just good friends having a quarrel. They had been friends long before their adventures in other worlds started. They still care greatly for each other, after all Digory did risk his life to go after Polly after Uncle Andrew sent her away with the ring. In contrast Jill and Eustace became friends over the course of the event in SC. They weren't even on a first name basis until later in the series.

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Posted : April 13, 2011 12:41 pm
Elluinas Mirion
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I would second that.

At some parts they can be a bit rude to each other, but they’re just good friends having a quarrel. They had been friends long before their adventures in other worlds started.

But also, in SC, Eustace had already undergone some serious personal changes in VODT. Whereas in MN, Digory is under some serious stresses for a little boy without any of the sort of deep affirming experiences that Eustace had, and Lewis really put that kid in some serious misery and trouble, caught between his mother with a terminal illness and his mad uncle's dangerous and seductive "researches".

Put on your psychologists hat for a moment. There's a reason Digory has a secret hide out in the attic and it's not because he's antisocial like Eustace was. (ALERT!: this is incorrect you nimwit. ML)

The adventure that Jill and Eustace were on was I think a good deal less perilous- commissioned by Aslan, as opposed to sent by Mad Uncle Andrew. Those rings represented more power than should ever be in the hands of mortals. Just the very thought gives me vertigo and a case of the willies. Such things have an intoxicating effect on the mind, like strong drink. The air alone set Eustace and Jill to fighting; I'm surprised Digory and Polly didn't kill each other.

I think the real question you might ask is to what extent does Polly exert a positive and stabilizing influence on Digs compared to Jill's effect on Eustace. You may take the "brilliance of the fireworks" as an indicator of the depth of the understanding of the performance. Bearing in mind also that Jill is given the responsiblity to remember the signs (after she nearly kills Eustace.) whereas Aslan merely asks Polly, "have you forgiven the boy for the events at the hall of images?" Do you perceive Polly as being more mature and sensible than Jill, and perhaps even more "persuasive"? Interesting when you think of the difference in the social standards of the times, say 1890 vs 1955.

And speaking of contrasts, what about Shasta and Aravis? Talk about awkward. For that matter, talk about your flawed role models, Bree with his kind heart but deep insecurities. Poor loveable schmuck. Who is comforting who?

Anybody who says Lewis only had strong male characters just isn't paying attention.

Magician's Nephew is a different animal, it's a story "filled with the sadness of men" as the elves say, and even the happy ending leaves you knowing what comes after. There's a good reason for the interpersonal dynamics of what you have noticed. I wish Lewis had worked a bit more of that into Last Battle.

Well... maybe not.

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Posted : May 24, 2011 8:01 pm
DiGoRyKiRkE
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Put on your psychologists hat for a moment. There's a reason Digory has a secret hide out in the attic and it's not because he's antisocial like Eustace was.

Digory doesn't have a hideout in the attic; Polly does.

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Posted : May 25, 2011 3:42 am
Elluinas Mirion
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whoops! Must be old age, imagining things that never happened.

edited

aure entuluva! na kare indolmelya!

a rakuenno ar kiryar.

獅子のための kwa simba από το λιοντάρι fyrir ljónið Az oroszlán par lauva
사자의 na i Ravession voor de leeuw bagi singa

Posted : May 25, 2011 6:53 pm
stateofgreen
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.......I think the real question you might ask is to what extent does Polly exert a positive and stabilizing influence on Digs compared to Jill's effect on Eustace. You may take the "brilliance of the fireworks" as an indicator of the depth of the understanding of the performance. Bearing in mind also that Jill is given the responsibility to remember the signs (after she nearly kills Eustace) whereas Aslan merely asks Polly, "have you forgiven the boy for the events at the hall of images?" Do you perceive Polly as being more mature and sensible than Jill, and perhaps even more "persuasive"? Interesting when you think of the difference in the social standards of the times, say 1890 vs 1955.....

Fun post Elluinas Mirion! I think that's why Digory and Polly arguing with each other didn't make me think of the Edwardian age, it made me think more of 1955 (or rather...the 1940's) and how Jill and Eustace would talk. Thought it interesting to read that Lewis had trouble writing MN and didn't finish until after he wrote SC and that the working title before it being called The Magician's Nephew was Digory and Polly. Digory and Polly's dialogue to me personally didn't seem to fit my ideas of how Edwardian children then talked or argued...(but what do I know?)

But yes Polly seems to be more mature than Jill. Polly also seems to be positive in that she stands up to Digory (her stabilizing influence) with her beliefs and warnings about whether something they're about to do is right/wrong and how she tries to keep him from doing unwise things (like ringing that bell). She sort of seems unusually persuasive for the times she was in (maybe she later became a suffragette?) ;) She's a good encourager and whispers support of Digory's doing the right thing after he's made the hard decision to not follow Jadis' trying to get him to steal the apple for his mother. We don't see a more mature and encouraging Jill until after her SC adventure. Polly seems pretty mature before she even has adventures.

In Silver Chair Eustace is "supposed" to be the more mature one from the past experiences he's had in Narnia and is sort of playing the "stabilizer" role with Jill (he tries to get her away for the cliff's edge) though of course he still also is deceived by the Lady of the Green Kirtle.

Polly and Jill both get on their respective friends' nerves though. Jill seems more bent on upstaging Eustace and Polly seems more set on not getting into trouble than trying to upstage Digory (unless she's been made angry by his impulsiveness), so she's more mature in that sense. Polly still comes to help Digory out when he has to get Jadis out of London (she's a 'brick' even after they've argued). But then you also see Jill and Eustace making up after bickering too and when it really counts they have the same solidarity as Digory and Polly have against danger/fighting witches green or white.


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Topic starter Posted : May 25, 2011 7:24 pm
Conina
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I don't know that it is necessarily "anti-social" of Polly that she has a hideout. She does bring Digory to see it. It just shows that she has an imagination and some inclinations for exploration. It may show that she was kind of lonely for kids to play with before Digory. She strikes me as an only child.

Of the four kids, Polly is the least taken in with witches. She sensibly points out that Digory is only pretending to be enchanted with the bell. Although in the other kids' defense WW doesn't even try with Polly. Either because of my belief that she senses some strength within Polly or the narrator's given reason, that she perceives Digory as the closest connected with the magician and therefore the most important to bewitch.

"Reason is the natural order of truth; but imagination is the organ of meaning." -C.S. Lewis

Posted : May 26, 2011 7:42 am
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