@col-klink 

Even if this is what's she's doing, I still am very afraid it's too risky a decision for the venture. I did imagine that multiple voices speaking at the same time as one might be a direction she chooses to take to give the visual/audio suggestion of three in one without having to explain it in a more complicated fashion. I think something similar has been done in films with pagan deities. And of course, one voice could dominate or take a central role depending on the moment. If it was my choice, I'd want the scene in the garden and the apple to be a male's voice. But I'm also comfortable with a director exploring established theology in a creative way without freaking out. I think most Narnia fans would agree that if we weren't comfortable with that, we never would have been comfortable with Narnia in the first place. 

We'll see. I'm just not convinced that Meryl being cast means Greta is being disrespectful. I still think it could be a mistake. I hope they test the waters some more. Surely, nobody feels like losing more money in this economy. This feels like a career-ending mistake if it goes wrong. It just takes one ill-received, expensive film to do that. Plus, I'm not sure we'd get anything else Narnian for a very long time.

It doesn't matter what a voice actor is doing during the time they're shooting the film. Surely that actor comes in during post production only?

@coracle I'm really not sure, never having been involved in an animated movie (or a non-animated one, for that matter) — maybe somebody else here has some more direct knowledge. But I remember once, years ago, seeing a "making of" film about the BBC's beautiful (and ultra-faithful) series of adaptations of Beatrix Potter's stories, made in the early 1990s. One thing that stood out to me — and I hope I'm remembering it correctly, over 30 years later — was that they did the animation after the characters' voices were recorded, and carefully timed not only the animated characters' mouth movements, but also their physical gestures as they spoke, to fit exactly with the already-recorded voices, pretty much syllable by syllable.

That makes more sense to me than doing the animation first and then recording the voices, because in that case, the voice actors would be having to synchronise not only the timing of their words, but also their tone and expression, to fit in with an existing animated sequence. I can imagine that would be very difficult to get right and would make the voice actors feel really hampered. So I'm guessing it's standard to record the voices first and then create the animation. But I could be wrong, and I'd be glad to hear from anyone else who knows more for certain.

  @coracle   That is another really good point, that a voice actor isn't really needed until pre-production, so it will be a while before the voices are finally decided on, once the technical bits are already organised, & it is time to see how the bits connect?  I can't pretend to know anywhere near as much as yourself about acting, let alone film production, when I understand you've had much experience with Narnia theatre productions.  

@cymru   So...I've had to ask myself what could they be thinking if this is the direction they go. Knowing Greta's influences and how she does deep homework for the thing she writes makes me wonder if:

1) Meryl won't be the ONLY voice of Aslan. 
2) Aslan's voice could be made of multiple voices.
3) Aslan's voice will change with each book/adventure in Narnia based on the story and adventure itself.

Though I agree that Meryl won't be the ONLY voice of Aslan, I'm not so sure of multiple voices, EXCEPT where even the book MN, itself, positively calls for it, such as in MN's creation scenes, when Aslan's own song mingles with those of a chorus of stars.  But I do agree that Aslan's voice might well change with each book/adventure as needed, especially when he appears in various forms.

I've been trying to think what Aslan does in each book:

1. In MN, it is our first introduction to him, really, even if MN was the last book to be completed.
2. In LWW, it is mainly moods we see, & his sacrifice, rather than shapeshifting.
3. In HHB, Shasta is comforted by the cat, and then there are the three voices (Myself) on the foggy mountainside. We also see Aslan not only scratching Aravis' back, but also a personal visit later on at the Hermit's place, as well as at Anvard, when dealing with Rabadash. 
4. In PC, his appearance is more ethereal, only gradually reappearing. A whisper in the wind, perhaps, when Lucy was trying to wake up the trees? But a deep roar, when the Pevensies & Trumpkin get to Aslan's Howe. What about the romp through Narnia? And the people he meets? I nearly forgot Reepicheep getting his tail restored, & the way Aslan organised the return of the Pevensies to the Railway station. 
5. In VDT, Aslan appears on Dragon Island, to un dragon Eustace, on Deathwater Island, growling. At Coriakin's Island, where they meet the dufflepuds, but mainly to Lucy, during after she reads the book, where he claimes to have been also "unvisibled". At the Dark Island, Aslan was the albatross that said "courage dear heart", then met them at Aslan's Table, on Ramandu's Island, to restore the three remaining missing lords, Revilian, Argos and Mavramorn, the lord who wanted the mustard. When both Ramandu and Coriakin are supposed to be stars, would any reprise of the star music from MN be warranted, at sunrise, and when Ramandu gets his bit of coal delivered by a flock of birds? And then, there is the time he appears in a lion's head effigy on Caspian's shield, I think, as well as the Lamb who gives Eustace, Lucy and Edmund some breakfast at the End of the World. 
6. In SC there is Jill's first meeting with Aslan, on the mountain top, her dream of the rocking horse turning into Aslan in Harfang, and meeting Aslan at Caspian's funeral at the end. 
7. LB. This is where it is going to be tricky, when we have a false Aslan - a poor donkey dressed up as Aslan, and the real Aslan at the end. 

Have I forgotten anything?

I guess some people may see it as kind of ridiculous having a female voice for a male lion even though the lion may appear to be male. I have seen music videos of men with high voices where you would almost think they were  women if you didn’t see them. So I guess it could be done with a male lion through animation. It wouldn’t be so different than if they had a man with a high speaking voice performing Aslan.  There are some men with high voices.  But Aslan would be much more convincing with a deep masculine voice since he is a male lion. His gender is a part of his character, and they should at least get that right. 

@coracle Hi, Auntie. I'm not sure what you're responding to with this question, but I can say that when a voice actor records depends on the film. If they plan to do any capture of an actor's facial expressions and movements (like they have done with Andy Serkis) they can even be filming in scene with other actors. Many animators work with a pre-recorded voice and match their CGI to the audio - or at least they used to, so voice recording can be done prior to the final animation. With AI being used for so much now, who knows? 

Posted by: @cymru

Hey all! It's been a while. Just coming here to drop a thought that I couldn't find by searching.

Off topic, but I can't help it because I'm just so excited to see Cymru here! Hello hello! 👋 

For the record (and to post something on topic) I am still far from converting to a positive view of this unconfirmed news. However, I have found many of your ideas and theories very interesting. We'll see what Ms. Gerwig chooses to do here.

Just thinking some more about the ideas that a few people have brought up, about the possibility of Aslan being portrayed with different appearances and different voices at various times. It's an intriguing prospect, and of course we're already aware from the books that Aslan can and does appear in different forms at times (the albatross and the lamb in VDT, the cat in HHB). So it's not outside the bounds of possibility that a film-maker could try to explore this in some other ways.

However, I'm also thinking this needs to be balanced with the fact that Aslan is the only character in the Chronicles who features in all seven of the books, and so he needs to be recognisable across the whole series of films. Take it too far with varying his appearance or his voice, and there may be a risk of viewers (especially younger ones) getting confused as to whether or not this really is the same Aslan we've met before.

Especially if they go so far as to make Aslan look and sound male in some instances, and female in others — to tie it back to the specific topic of this thread. Having a shape-shifting and even gender-bending divine character is an intriguing idea that could work in some fantasy universes, but in Narnia... no, I really can't see that working. Not without totally losing the spirit and "feel" of the original books and obscuring the message they're supposed to convey.

I hope that real people will be doing all of the voices. While something old fashioned looking should be used for the appearance of Aslan and the other animals the voices should be human. No technology should ever replace what can be achieved with the human voice even if it is imitating animal sounds. I don't think there is any other way to make the story believable in the movie. It is the best way to preserve what C. S. Lewis intended for Narnia.

@courtenay Agree. I am very worried about the decision and can't see it working - but my hope is that it will be hard tested. The original Aslan was replaced in the older films when it was realized he was not working out. I can't see this working if this is what she's trying, but back in my day Yoda was considered a disastrous decision...until people saw The Empire Strikes Back. It's a hard balance to find that allows capable directors to try new things without failing on a level that costs everyone involved too much. I can't imagine Netflix funding this unless they really thing it's going to work - and the fact that nothing has been confirmed yet after all these weeks might mean there are a lot of misgivings. They have to know Aslan is as important a character voice as Darth Vader. The voice is the biggest thing about him in the books. It's defining. If something experimental is based in something Scriptural that we have not really thought about and that actually reflects the conveyed person of God, I'm okay with something as small as a movie making me think about that more deeply. But I also really want to see ALL the books made into movies so I don't want them to kill it too soon. I DON'T want another Wrinkle in Time or Dark is Rising disaster! Nobody in Hollywood is too good to fail.

Posted by: @cymru

@courtenay Agree. I am very worried about the decision and can't see it working - but my hope is that it will be hard tested. The original Aslan was replaced in the older films when it was realized he was not working out.

Ah, now that's interesting and something I hadn't heard about — I assume you're referring to the films by Walden Media, for which I don't know much of the background. (I saw the first one in the cinema and didn't enjoy it, so I didn't watch the two later ones at all and have never delved into the "making of" stories behind them.)

If it won't drag this discussion too much off topic (and maybe there's another thread where it could be discussed if so), I'd be really interested to know — what was it about the "original" Aslan that was deemed to be unsuitable, and what changes did they make to him? He's the most important character in the Narnia stories (at least in my view, and probably in a lot of other people's) and I think it's worth considering what previous adaptations have done with him and what they got right, or not so right.

I can't imagine Netflix funding this unless they really thing it's going to work - and the fact that nothing has been confirmed yet after all these weeks might mean there are a lot of misgivings.

That's one of the main things that puzzles me, as I know I've said earlier in this discussion. Matthew Aldrich, who was originally hired as the head of Netflix's Narnia project, was dropped because — according to some statements he made fairly recently — he was proposing to "update" the Chronicles "in some fun ways", and apparently the top people at Netflix didn't agree with that idea. So why would they now be happy with their new choice of director (reportedly) proposing to make such a huge change as making Aslan female, or at least casting a female voice actor for him??? It doesn't make sense.  

They have to know Aslan is as important a character voice as Darth Vader. The voice is the biggest thing about him in the books. It's defining.

I agree — that, and the mane. If Aslan is female, (s)he won't have a mane. Or if Aslan is outwardly male, with a mane, but speaking with a feminine voice (no matter how talented the voice actress)... that's just weird, and is not going to convey the kind of character he is in the books.

If something experimental is based in something Scriptural that we have not really thought about and that actually reflects the conveyed person of God, I'm okay with something as small as a movie making me think about that more deeply. But I also really want to see ALL the books made into movies so I don't want them to kill it too soon. I DON'T want another Wrinkle in Time or Dark is Rising disaster! Nobody in Hollywood is too good to fail.

Yes, that's another aspect of it that I know has come up here before — this film is supposed to be the first in a series of all seven Chronicles. If they do something so outlandish with it that it's a turn-off for a huge percentage of viewers, especially the established Narnia fans... it's not likely to get past the first instalment. And with all the money Netflix spent on obtaining the rights to all seven books, I can't imagine them wanting to take a risk so huge that the whole thing could just bomb at the outset — and that is how huge this risk (with a radical change to Aslan) is. But we still don't know what they're actually planning to do...

By the way, if you don't mind me asking, going by your username — are you Welsh?   (I live only an hour's drive from the border of Wales and visit there often.)

Posted by: @courtenay

Posted by: @cymru

The original Aslan was replaced in the older films when it was realized he was not working out.

Ah, now that's interesting and something I hadn't heard about — I assume you're referring to the films by Walden Media, for which I don't know much of the background.

I would assume @cymru is referring to the fact that the Walden LWW originally cast Brian Cox in the role of Aslan, but then switched him out for Liam Neeson much later into the production.

https://www.narniaweb.com/2022/01/brian-fox-was-fired-from-playing-aslan/

I was recently enjoying the newest episode of Talking Beasts — Why Mabel Kirke Will Probably Have an Expanded Role in The Magician's Nephew (many thanks to @gp, @Gymfan15 and @Impending-Doom!)

One of the most interesting segments of the podcast was a bit off its official topic, as the discussion moves (perhaps inevitably) back to "that" casting rumour that has still never, so far, been either confirmed or denied. The presenters spend a bit of time discussing an idea that somebody recently shared: if Aslan is portrayed as female in the upcoming movie, could it be that Greta Gerwig is implying that Aslan is a maternal figure, in the light of Digory wrestling with his grief over his dying mother?

That's a proposal I hadn't heard before, and I agree with the podcast presenters that it does at least make some kind of thematic sense, even if (as I also agree) it's still unlikely to be popular with most Narnia fans. I'd certainly be interested to hear what anybody else here thinks about that idea.

One problem I have with it is one that was also discussed in the podcast. The Magician's Nephew is the only one of the Chronicles that has a mother-and-child relationship at its heart. So even if a female Aslan makes some thematic sense for that film, it really won't for all the rest. It might work if this adaptation of MN was a one-off, but it's supposed to be the start of a whole new series, potentially covering all seven books. Are they going to make Aslan female for all the rest of them as well, or switch him back to being male for LWW or whichever other film comes next?? 

I would also say that having Aslan as a mother-figure for Digory is getting a bit too Wizard of Oz-ish (the 1939 movie, not the original book) for my liking. That is, it could be taken as suggesting that Narnia is some kind of projection of Digory's inner world, rather than a real place in its own right, just as the 1939 Oz film made it that Oz was all a dream and all the characters Dorothy met there were doubles of her friends and enemies in real life. (As I've said in other discussions, I'm wary of LWW adaptations that play up Britain-in-WW2 / Narnia-under-the-Witch parallels for the same reason.)

And there's also the simple fact that Aslan, as portrayed in the actual story that Lewis wrote, doesn't come across as a maternal figure at all, or even, at first, an outwardly loving one. When Digory goes to speak to Aslan, he soon finds the Lion confronting him with his (Digory's) terrible mistake in waking Jadis and bringing her into Narnia, and Aslan doesn't relent until Digory fully admits responsibility for the wrong he did. It's only after Digory blurts out his longing for "something that will cure Mother" that he looks up and sees those tears in the Lion's eyes and realises how much compassion Aslan truly has.

Of course a mother-figure could be both compassionate and stern, as needed — and I have no doubt that even in our world, a lioness protecting her cubs is truly terrifying!! — but that just doesn't seem to fit the character of Aslan as we know him from the books. And there's one of the most problematic things about the potential gender swap, all theological arguments aside. I really can't see how Aslan could be portrayed as a female lion (or as a male lion with a feminine-sounding voice) and still feel the same — come across as the same character — as he does in the books. I don't see how it could be done without pretty much rewriting whole huge sections, for no likely gain. So I'm still hoping against hope that it's been a false rumour all along.

Posted by: @courtenay

if Aslan is portrayed as female in the upcoming movie, could it be that Greta Gerwig is implying that Aslan is a maternal figure, in the light of Digory wrestling with his grief over his dying mother?

This sounds like it could be related to Michael Ward's theory (though taken badly out of context - whether you like 'Planet Narnia' or not, I do not think he would endorse this interpretation of his theory).  In Ward's theory, The Magician's Nephew is the book where we are presented with Jesus as seen through a 'Venus' lens.  As I understand it, Digory's mother is manifesting the good ideas of Venus - being a loving mother, while Jadis is manifesting the corrupt ideas of 'Venus Infernal' with her vanity and beauty emphasized and Aslan shows the most maternal characteristics more in this story then in any of the other Narnian Chronicles - giving birth to a new world, pairing off speaking animals (1 male, 1 female presumably so that they can have kids together), sending Digory to get fruit for a tree of protection, etc.. (I'm doing a bad job or summarizing - apologies).
If Gerwig was taken up with this theory, I could see an extension to it, would be to make Aslan female to further express the 'Venus' aspect of the story.  I am not saying I think this is a good idea, but I could understand how someone could go down this path.

I'm starting to seriously wish that they would just come out and confirm or deny it already.  But if it is true, I don't know how Greta can say with a straight face (or a clear conscience) that she's treating the source material with "reverence" - as she went on record saying in January of last year.  She should've known that the fans would hold her to that...

There are a lot of creative dynamics that a female Aslan would bring to the table - such as those already mentioned by other people in this threat who are much better at gathering their thoughts than I am (especially contrasting with Jadis and Mabel Kirke).  But I feel like they'd be injecting something into the source material that just doesn't belong there.

I'm still going to watch it and give it a chance regardless but that doesn't mean I'm not going to be annoyed about it.

And if it's not true, cool beans.  We got got.  (I'm personally holding out that it's a misunderstanding and she's playing someone else, or Aslan's still a male lion and they're just using Meryl's voice with a lot of layering and editing and warping and such).