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Chapter 7: A Day with the Beavers

Pattertwigs Pal
(@twigs)
Member Moderator

1. What do the children's reactions to the robin leaving and Mr. Beaver appearing tell us about them?

2. Lewis describes the children each feeling something different when they hear Aslan's name for the first time. What do these feelings say about them?

3. What was your favorite /least favorite part of this chapter?


NW sister to Movie Aristotle & daughter of the King

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Topic starter Posted : October 19, 2013 4:29 am
King_Erlian
(@king_erlian)
NarniaWeb Guru

1. What do the children's reactions to the robin leaving and Mr. Beaver appearing tell us about them?
Edmund is probably still sulking and is glad of a little victory over Peter. It's interesting that in a few paragraphs, Susan goes from "Let's go home" to "Shan't we have to risk it?" All the children seem more inquisitive than scared, seeing as all they know at this stage is that Mr. Tumnus has been arrested and his home destroyed. As Edmund says, how do they know that Beavers are friendly?

2. Lewis describes the children each feeling something different when they hear Aslan's name for the first time. What do these feelings say about them?
To be honest, I think Lewis was being a bit heavy-handed here to show that Edmund was bad. "A sensation of mysterious horror"? Maybe if Edmund were totally evil, but he clearly isn't. He wants to be on the Witch's side, partly because he's been genuinely deceived by her and partly because he wants to get back at the others, especially Peter, for what he perceives as poor treatment. At the same time I think he's wondering whether he's chosen the wrong side after all and doesn't want to admit it to himself. So I would have thought Edmund's reaction would have been more mixed and confused. Perhaps the "mysterious horror" was not his real feelings, but a reaction from the enchantment from the Turkish Delight.

As for the others, I think their reactions reflect their characters as we see them as adults in "The Horse And His Boy".

3. What was your favorite /least favorite part of this chapter?
These are some of the thoughts I had:

1. The children show no surprise (or at least, it isn't reported that they did) when the Beaver speaks to them for the first time. I would have expected at least Peter and Susan to have been surprised, seeing as they hadn't been in Narnia before. They had heard Lucy's story about the Faun, but a Talking Beaver...? I liked the way they did the scene in the Walden film, with Peter holding out his hand, saying "Here boy" as if to a dog, and Mr. Beaver replying indignantly and condescendingly, "Well, I ain't going to smell it."

2. Where does Susan think they would find anything to eat in this snowy wilderness?

3. Why should the Beaver having possession of Mr. Tumnus' handkerchief prove he was a friend? For all they knew, Mr. Beaver might be one of the Secret Police who had captured him. As pointed out earlier, the children didn't know what kind of creatures Maugrim and the rest of the Secret Police were.

4. Why is Mr. Beaver still bothering to make a dam when the river is frozen? Is it because if he doesn't build dams, he feels he's got no purpose in life? Wouldn't the river being frozen make his job much more difficult, if not impossible?

5. From Lewis' description, it appears that the river froze instantaneously, over and through the dam. But if the Winter had been going on for a hundred years, then Mr. Beaver couldn't have built the dam, unless he's over a hundred years old, or if there were periods during the Winter when the river thawed and then re-freezed again.

6. Other Talking Beasts that we meet later have "proper" names. Why don't the Beavers? It's not very imaginative for them just to be called "Mr. Beaver" and "Mrs. Beaver". They don't think that the children are called "Master Human" and "Miss Human" (or "Master Son-of-Adam" and "Miss Daughter-of-Eve"), do they?

7. As others have famously pointed out (and to Lewis himself): Where did the potatoes come from? The wheat the bread was made from? The hops for Mr. Beaver's beer? The onions? The tea? None of them could grow in the frozen soil, and I doubt that the Witch would allow the Narnian creatures to trade with foreign merchants. Unless she does all the trading herself and then sells the goods to the Narnians - but why would she do that? I wouldn't have thought she'd be interested in money, or in anything the Narnians could have given her.

For me, this chapter is the weakest in the book. As Uncle Andrew says in "The Magician's Nephew", this is Another World - another universe - where the laws of science are different. Yet their visit to the Beavers' home is very much like dropping into their Grandma's house. The way the Beavers live - their house, their furniture, their crockery and cutlery, even the luxury of a sewing machine - it's all too... human. I wouldn't have thought that Talking Beasts would live exactly like dumb ones, but I wouldn't expect them to be imitation humans either - especially as the Beavers are quite condemning of creatures that pretend to be human and aren't. It solves the problem of how the children could be fed, and you couldn't expect nice respectable English children to eat as wild animals do. Still, it doesn't gel somehow.

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Posted : October 21, 2013 2:35 am
PhelanVelvel
(@phelanvelvel)
NarniaWeb Nut

I wouldn't have thought that Talking Beasts would live exactly like dumb ones, but I wouldn't expect them to be imitation humans either - especially as the Beavers are quite condemning of creatures that pretend to be human and aren't.

That's such a good point, I remember thinking something along those lines too. I think this is one of the spots where you can see that things aren't fully fleshed out yet in Lewis's mind. The animals in later books still have that anthropomorphic quality, but we never hear about them using aaanything like a sewing machine ever again.

The bit with the robin also makes me think that Lewis didn't have the whole Narnian universe quite figured out yet. (The part with Aslan's scepter and crown and stuff too, but that's not this chapter.) I think that in terms of the story, I would just say that the robin didn't speak because he was afraid of being turned in as a traitor by spying trees. The beavers were very hush-hush and whispery, so it's not surprising that the robin wouldn't want to speak. Mr. Beaver says a bird told him what happened to Mr. Tumnus. So we know that at least some birds talk. So the robin could be that same bird. But part of me still sort of wonders whether Lewis definitely had that in his head, or whether he actually intended that robin to be good, but not able to speak. Just kind of wonder about that one.

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Posted : November 16, 2013 10:15 am
ValiantArcher
(@valiantarcher)
BC Head and G&B Mod Moderator

1. Edmund of course is glad to have apparently been proven correct when the robin disappears, which is keeping with his earlier characterisation. Susan is rather practical and concerned for their comfort and safety as she's the one who wants to go home again. Peter is the natural leader (and practical as well, such as his comment about it being four against one beaver shows), and I think it's interesting that that includes deferring to Lucy's judgment about Narnia and the creatures there. Lucy is understandably afraid and nervous, but still trusting.

2. Again, I think Peter's reaction shows his role as a leader and protector. What Susan thinks of is also kind of comforting, in a way, though I'm not sure how to describe it. Lucy's reaction is adventurous, but not quite the same sort as Peter's; more of an excitement of free time, maybe? I have to disagree with King_Erlian's opinion of Edmund's reaction, though: I think it was appropriate. Edmund knew or at least suspected he wrong deep down, and we know that Aslan came to break the Witch's curse and also to execute judgment on those following her (or, at least, I think that can be taken from the battle at the end), and thus I think that mysterious horror is a completely reasonable reaction, even if he couldn't explain it.

God rest you merry, gentlemen,
Let nothing you dismay.
Remember Christ our Savior
Was born on Christmas Day
To save us all from Satan's pow'r
When we were gone astray.

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Posted : February 2, 2014 10:53 am
Pattertwigs Pal
(@twigs)
Member Moderator

1. What do the children's reactions to the robin leaving and Mr. Beaver appearing tell us about them?
Susan is ready to run at the first sign of danger. Peter is a leader, is not afraid to ask his youngest sister what she thinks, and is willing to take calculated risks. Edmund is suspicious and expects the worst. Lucy is quick to trust.
2. Lewis describes the children each feeling something different when they hear Aslan's name for the first time. What do these feelings say about them?
Edmund's tell us that he is against Aslan.
Peter is starting to become ready for the adventure ahead.
Susan's feeling is rather passive - smell or music floating past, perhaps showing that Aslan needs to be near for her to be stronger.
Lucy's feeling tell us she is joyful. She is very much a little girl. Her reaction suggest it will last a while - it is a beginning.

Re: The food. I believe Douglas Gresham suggested that there might be a black market with Calormen. Also, we know the witch also had control of the Lone Islands and there is no indication that they were stuck in winter so she could have gotten food for her people from there. Maybe they had green houses. The witch would have had to make some allowances for food. It is no good having one's subjects die from starvation.

Re: The dam
At the time Lewis wrote the book, I don't think he had decided on a length of winter. I think there were some thaws during the witch's winters. The dwarf hints as much later in the book. It is possible for snow to melt, etc and spring not really to come. Think how horrible an occasional thaw would be for her subjects. They might begin to hope that spring was coming and then wham! the witch would hit them with a sudden blizzard or something.


NW sister to Movie Aristotle & daughter of the King

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Topic starter Posted : June 19, 2014 3:46 pm
The Rose-Tree Dryad
(@rose)
Secret Garden Agent Moderator

1. What do the children's reactions to the robin leaving and Mr. Beaver appearing tell us about them?

I think Lucy's reaction to seeing something moving among the trees is a large part why she eventually comes to be known as Lucy the Valiant—she tries to be brave. Susan's concerned about safety; she wants to go home. Edmund continues with his suspicious, negative attitude by suggesting that the beaver may not be nice, but also shows us why he became such a good judge: he avoids assuming things. Peter's comment about the four of them being a match for one beaver is very indicative of his natural aptitude for strategy, something we see more of later when he is High King of Narnia.

2. Lewis describes the children each feeling something different when they hear Aslan's name for the first time. What do these feelings say about them?

Edmund's reaction seems to be strongly linked with his unrepentant state. I don't think Aslan's name would have been a horror to him if it weren't for all of the things he'd done and his attitudes about them. Peter's reaction seems to foreshadow his future: Aslan brings out the High King in him. Susan's reaction indicates that she may be a more sensory person, which is in keeping with her later fondness for fashion. Lucy's reaction is a very childlike one (childlike, not childish) and that's one of the reasons why she was always so close to Aslan, so quickly: she had childlike faith and held onto it as she grew up.

3. What was your favorite /least favorite part of this chapter?

Favorite part was the description of the Beavers' home and the dinner that everyone enjoyed; Lewis paints a lovely, homey picture. I also really like the last lines of the chapter, where Mr. Beaver says the snow won't leave any tracks. It's a nice segway into the next chapter. My least favorite part was when Edmund was thinking about the White Witch on the way over to the Beavers' house.

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Posted : July 30, 2014 7:43 am
Ryadian
(@rya)
Member Moderator

1. What do the children's reactions to the robin leaving and Mr. Beaver appearing tell us about them?
The obvious one is Edmund's reaction, which is overtly described an essential "I told you so!" This just reinforces an idea that we already know, and which becomes more and more apparent as time goes on--Edmund loves being right, lording it over others, and at the moment he hates Peter for chastising him. Meanwhile, Susan and Lucy both get upset at the loss of the bird--Susan, to the point where she wants to go home, further establishing that Susan is probably the least adventurous of the bunch. I think with Lucy, her distress at the bird disappearing, beyond losing their only guide, has to do with her innocence and faith in this world--she trusted the robin to show them the way, then it disappeared. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but the way I imagine this scene, that's what I imagine Lucy thinking.

Notably, though, and as King_Erlian touched on, this doesn't really deter any of them from getting closer to Mr. Beaver when they discover him. Aside from Edmund, though we know he has an ulterior motive.

2. Lewis describes the children each feeling something different when they hear Aslan's name for the first time. What do these feelings say about them?

Edmund's tell us that he is against Aslan.
Peter is starting to become ready for the adventure ahead.
Susan's feeling is rather passive - smell or music floating past, perhaps showing that Aslan needs to be near for her to be stronger.
Lucy's feeling tell us she is joyful. She is very much a little girl. Her reaction suggest it will last a while - it is a beginning.

I have to admit, I don't really have a better response than this. :P :)

7. As others have famously pointed out (and to Lewis himself): Where did the potatoes come from? The wheat the bread was made from? The hops for Mr. Beaver's beer? The onions? The tea? None of them could grow in the frozen soil, and I doubt that the Witch would allow the Narnian creatures to trade with foreign merchants. Unless she does all the trading herself and then sells the goods to the Narnians - but why would she do that? I wouldn't have thought she'd be interested in money, or in anything the Narnians could have given her.

Well, if the White Witch controlled the flow of food into Narnia, then she'd have further control over the population. It is a wonder that she let them have enough food to set out such a feast before the Pevensies, though! Twigs mentioned the possibility of a black market in Calormen, and I also wonder--was Archenland frozen over as well? If not, then I would think that Narnia's ally would be willing to help smuggle in food, even if they don't have the power to save Narnia from the Witch.

N-Web sis of stardf, _Rillian_, & jerenda
Proud to be Sirya the Madcap Siren

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Posted : September 10, 2014 4:40 pm
Movie Aristotle
(@risto)
NarniaWeb Junkie

1. What do the children's reactions to the robin leaving and Mr. Beaver appearing tell us about them?

Well, there isn't much to glean, but I'd say that Lucy is sad about the robin leaving, Edmund is complaining, Susan is observant, and Peter is keeping track of the other three's input, and ultimately makes the decision to make contact with Mr. Beaver.

2. Lewis describes the children each feeling something different when they hear Aslan's name for the first time. What do these feelings say about them?

Peter: He has aspiration. Courageous.
Susan: She values safety and comfort. Peace-loving.
Edmund: He is going down the wrong path. Prodigal.
Lucy: She is filled with promise and sensitive to joy. Hopeful.

Movie Aristotle, AKA Risto

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Posted : September 16, 2014 6:39 pm
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