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[Closed] Why would the lords leave a sword behind? Plot hole?

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Glumpuddle
(@gp)
News Poster, Podcast Producer

The VDT movie is very vague on how the lords received their seven swords. All we know is that they were given by Aslan in order to protect Narnia.

Bern tells Caspian and Edmund that "we lords vowed to find the source of the mist." So six of them set out to find and destroy it. (Not sure why Bern stayed behind)

Question 1: Why would the lords leave one sword behind (with Bern)? What was the point in going at all if they didn't have all seven swords? They also lose more swords along the way as they lose companions. Why would they keep going? What was their plan exactly?

The movie doesn't even attempt to explain this, so we can only speculate: The only explanation I can think of is that Aslan gave them the swords but didn't give them any further instructions. He apparently did not tell them that all seven swords needed to be united on Aslan's table.

But apparently Aslan told Coriakin (again, that is just speculation because the movie does not attempt to explain how Coriakin knows everything). Why Aslan decided to tell Coriakin and not the lords is anyone's guess.

Question 2: Coriakin says that he "sent" the lords to Dark Island. Why would he tell them to do that if he knew they were missing a sword? What did Coriakin expect the lords to do?

Thoughts? Guesses?


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Topic starter Posted : March 11, 2011 6:53 am
Clive Staples Sibelius
(@clive-staples-sibelius)
NarniaWeb Nut

Nah. Just plot holes again :p .

Ok, one guess: the swords and the mist weren't always connected. Maybe Coriakin has been working on magically connecting them so that the next person to come along could destroy the island. Very chancey, still.

"Even in literature and art, no man who bothers about originality will ever be original: whereas if you simply try to tell the truth you will, nine times out of ten, become original without ever having noticed."- CS Lewis

Posted : March 11, 2011 7:13 am
daughter of the King
(@dot)
Princess Dot Moderator

I have been trying to figure this one out ever since I saw the movie. It just doesn't make sense. If all of the lords swore to find out about the mist, why did Bern stay behind? If Coriakin knew they needed all seven swords, did he not tell the lords? And if he did tell the lords, why didn't they go back to get Bern? Oh, and what about Rhoop? Why did the other three lords fall asleep and he didn't? And, if he knew they needed all seven swords, why in the world did he go to Dark Island by himself? It's illogical.

Let's just call it a plot hole, 'cause that's what it is.

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Posted : March 11, 2011 8:14 am
Reepicheep775
(@reepicheep775)
NarniaWeb Junkie

Clear-cut plot hole. The filmmakers minds were on vacation when this movie was made.

Posted : March 11, 2011 8:24 am
Rilian The Disenchanted
(@rilian-the-disenchanted)
NarniaWeb Nut

I hope the audio-commentary on the DVD/BD explains why. But i'm not really bothered by it.

As i see it they probably didn't know how exactly the swords could help Narnia. It wasn't until they arrived at the Lone Island that they discovered about the green mist. Lord Rhoop could've been kidnapped by the green mist like Gael's mother.
Bern was arrested by Gumpas before he even left the Lone islands, the others probably escaped.

Posted : March 11, 2011 8:43 am
waggawerewolf27
(@waggawerewolf27)
Member Hospitality Committee

Well, Bern was in prison when Caspian and Edmund arrived at the Lone Islands. Since in the interim the sword was Lord Bern's the sword remained hidden should he get out of prison. He would have needed it then when he was freed. Seems logical to me, however the lords came by the swords.

Besides, the lords' quest was to find and conquer the source of the Green Mist, nothing more or nothing less. All of the other lords kept their swords by them as you would have expected. Even the ones at Aslan's table. If they knew what they had to do with the swords, why hadn't they put their own swords on the table? Why didn't Lord Rhoop stay put, instead of going further?

That is of course if the lords didn't get to Aslan's table a different way via Dark Island as per the book, and as per Coriakin's hint to go to Dark Island. As for Coriakin, we don't know what he had to tell the lords, or if they were listening. They already had left Bern behind, possibly Octesian and Restimar as well, so they would not have heard whatever Coriakin had to say anyway.

After all, the Dawn Treader was blown off course by a storm which is how it got to Dragon/Deathwater Island.

Posted : March 11, 2011 8:47 am
Faroegirl
(@faroegirl)
NarniaWeb Regular

I think it is a plot hole. But I still like the film.

I think it would be better like this:
- Bern just gives Caspian his sword as a present, saying he got it from Caspian IX.
- Coriakin explains where the swords came from, gifts from Aslan. He tells Caspian,
that he should try to find the other swords, since they can be useful in the
battle against evil.
- Ramandu's daughter should tell them, that all seven have to be laid on Aslan's
table.

Rhoop could have been caught by the mist somehow, so that's not unlikely in my opinion.

This is not a big issue for me, I think VDT is a good film.

Posted : March 11, 2011 10:14 am
Trufflehunter
(@trufflehunter)
NarniaWeb Nut

Well as far as the sword being left behind with Bern, I think that each of the seven lords had a corresponding sword. I think Bern stayed behind because like he did in the book, he became a leader, and liked the life he had in Narrowhaven. Now, this doesn't make much sense in the film, because he is currently residing in a jail cell. :p

I don't think that the Lords knew that the Green Mist was the "evil" that they were supposed to unite the swords to defeat. Therefore, they journeyed East and to the Dark Island without knowing that they would face the evil that they needed all the swords for.

"I'm a beast I am, and a Badger what's more. We don't change. We hold on. I say great good will come of it... And we beasts remember, even if Dwarfs forget, that Narnia was never right except when a son of Adam was King." -Trufflehunter

Posted : March 11, 2011 10:37 am
waggawerewolf27
(@waggawerewolf27)
Member Hospitality Committee

Originally the seven lords were just getting away from Miraz. It wasn't until they got to the Lone Islands that the Green Mist became an issue, let alone the Seven Swords being reunited. I agree the lords wouldn't have known as much as Bern learned later from observation, guards etc. And I do agree with Faroegirl that the swords should have been given by Caspian IX, which does make sense, even if later on you could say that ultimately the swords came from Aslan.

Oh I will have to look at the DVD when it comes out at the end of March! It is too difficult to remember everything since last January when I last saw the movie before it went on to other parts of the world. :)

Posted : March 11, 2011 12:08 pm
Glumpuddle
(@gp)
News Poster, Podcast Producer

I don't think that the Lords knew that the Green Mist was the "evil" that they were supposed to unite the swords to defeat. Therefore, they journeyed East and to the Dark Island without knowing that they would face the evil that they needed all the swords for.

That would not explain why Coriakin sent them to "Dark Island" knowing full well they didn't have all the swords. What did Coriakin expect them to do without all the swords?


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Topic starter Posted : March 11, 2011 2:23 pm
Pattertwigs Pal
(@twigs)
Member Moderator

I assumed that the lords set out at different times. Perhaps in groups. If the plan was that they would set out in small groups or individually, they wouldn't be worried if they didn't have all the swords because they would expect that they would be followed. If they only knew that the swords were to protect Narnia, they might think it wise not to keep them all in one spot. Lord Rhoop could have set out by himself, the 3 Lords at RI could have gone as a group, and Lord Octesian and Lord Restimar as partners. Lord Bern would have been last, but he got locked up. I'm not sure if there is any logic behind that assumption or exactly why I think that. It's been too long since I saw the movie. :p I don't remember how much Bern told Caspian. :p Hopefully, I'm making some sense.


NW sister to Movie Aristotle & daughter of the King

Posted : March 11, 2011 2:58 pm
icarus
(@icarus)
NarniaWeb Guru

Despite the multitude of changes from the source material we glimpsed at in the Leaked Script, i'd be fairly confident in saying that the full version of the original first draft script written by Christopher Markus and Stephen McFeeley actually did make sense within it's own context - the problem therefore, and which you are witnessing in this instance, is that the script was subsequently edited by no less than 3 further scriptwriters, and it would seem that as things got cut down, simplified, and modified from the original concepts, no-one really checked to make sure things still possessed the same sense of internal logic.

Ideally when it became clear that they no longer had the budget and/or the studio desire to make the script as originally planned they should of started from scratch, but for whatever reasons they did not, and so you can see that the final movie contains numerous half-finished ideas and half-developed plotlines such as this, which no longer make any real sense in the context of the movie, but do perhaps become more understandable if you trace the genesis of the particular idea back to the original script concept.

Anyway, from what i recall, even with just the handful of pages from the "Leaked Script" we saw, it did quite adequately explain why the other 6 lords progressed on without Lord Bern to find the source of the "evil" (the soul-eating snake cave such as it was in that draft) but clearly after the addition of the swords plot device and the change over to the "green mist" (and the removal of plot devices such as The Stone Knife and much of the Blue Star plotline) parts of the script's earlier logic started to unravel and the writers and producers either didn't notice, or didn't care enough to fix the giant plot holes which were developing in their story.

Posted : March 12, 2011 6:06 am
Aravis Narnia
(@aravis-narnia)
NarniaWeb Nut

I honestly think they nabbed Bern and his sword. He could not proceed- and thus could not bring his sword with him.

Posted : March 12, 2011 10:41 am
Narnian_Archer
(@narnian_archer)
NarniaWeb Junkie

Clear-cut plot hole! No questions asked.
I have not seen the movie in English yet (only in my native language) but I remember there being something about Lord Bern saying "I'm sorry" in the prison. (I saw it both times I watched the movie, and I thought it was kind of weird. Maybe it was just the transaltion--I'll only know for sure when the official DVD comes out and I can see it in English.)
It could be just a funny translation, but if it isn't, wouldn't this somehow tie in with the plot? Maybe Lord Bern got scared of something or had an arguement with the other Lords and, disregarding his vow, stole away from the Lords and took his sword with him. As a punishment, Aslan allowed for him to be captured and he spent a long time in prison, mulling over how he wished he could have gone with the other Lords. It sounds a little random to me, but it could be a possibility. Again, I can't say for sure because I have yet to hear this dialogue in English. If I'm mistaken about this line, please correct me and tell me what he really says. :)


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Posted : March 13, 2011 4:18 am
Eustace
(@eustace)
NarniaWeb Junkie

Yeah, big plot holes again. Why did they leave Rhoop in the Dark Island? How did they get out of the Dark Island? No explanation is given.

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Posted : March 15, 2011 6:48 am
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