Forum

Share:
Notifications
Clear all

[Closed] What the Filmmakers should know about The Silver Chair

Page 1 / 8
Clive Staples Sibelius
(@clive-staples-sibelius)
NarniaWeb Nut

I address this post to the executives of Fox and Walden as well as to the filmmakers themselves.

I've been hugely negative about the VDT film, so I hope to make up for that in part with these suggestions and pointers in how to approach the next one.

The Silver Chair is easily my favorite book. I've read it backwards and forwards so many times, but it still manages to catch me by surprise.

In the chance that The Silver Chair is made next (which is probable, but not definite), there are a few things I want to point out about the book which I hope will get across to them when reading it:

1) The prince (Rilian) is the one who needs saving in this film. He is in a situation somewhat like Hamlet's, which Lewis even suggests by describing him as looking "altogether a bit like Hamlet."

2) The children and Puddleglum have doubts about their mission when they are in the course of having it. But no matter how they screw it up, Aslan still shows them the way.

3) I know some people won't like this, but Michael Ward's theory of Planet-to-Book correspondence is especially strong with The Silver Chair. But nevermind that it's all "lunar." There is an atmosphere of grey gloom throughout, and then of silver festivity. Capture that atmosphere. It's the filmmakers greatest challenge, but his/her's greatest success when done. Because if you do more than capture the characters and plot, you've created a classic. When I was a kid my dad and I watched 'Lawrence of Arabia.' I hardly could follow the plot, and the characters sometimes confused me, but the atmosphere of the film (with lots of help from the musical score) enchanted me. I was hooked. Atmosphere will enchant movie-goers, not cheesy one-liners.

4) Not everything that Lewis doesn't explain in the books has to be explained. Indeed, he often meant NOT to explain things. This is part of the enchantment, the atmosphere I speak of in Point 3.

5) The Lady of the Green Kirtle is not the same person as the White Witch. How do I know this? Because she comes from a different literary tradition than the WW. The White Witch came from the Snow Queen. Not because Lewis was a copycat, but because that image was such a strong one on his imagination. The LotGK comes from a tradition that made an even bigger impression on Lewis: old Anglo-Saxon fairy tales. The Lady of the Green Kirtle is an enchantress whereas the White Witch is a temptress.

6) The Message. I realize this is the hardest thing to grasp for filmmakers and that there is a fear of alienating audiences with a message that will seem "foreign" to them. But ask yourselves: am I going to challenge the audience by making them think about something differently (Recognizing the signs/doing your duty, despite all distractions and obstacles), or will I do the conventional thing which appears in EVERY movie with a "message" for children (i.e. "be yourself")?

7) And finally, what The Silver Chair is "about." I myself can't make up my mind, but it does have several themes running through it: Keeping to the right path, despite obstacles. And not only literally, but in one's mind as well. I wrote about enchantment earlier--enchanting audiences. But I also characterized the Lady of the Green Kirtle as an "enchantress." I won't go in-depth here, but let me differentiate between the two. With a movie you seek to "capture" your audience, not meaning any harm but wanting to share the experience of enchantment. What the LotGK does is dominate. She has to cast a spell to control, because nobody would ever follow her otherwise.

I am under no illusion (at least, nobody has cast a spell on me to think this) that the film of The Silver Chair will be exactly like the book. I nevertheless implore the filmmakers to take a deeper look at the book and at themselves, and ask what kind of a movie do they want to make? Do you want your film to be admired for being something nobody has ever seen before, or do you want to be ridiculed for making an imitative knock-off?

Remember that filmmakers DO NOT make blockbusters. Audiences make movies INTO blockbusters.

And Please don't cast Johnny Depp as Puddleglum. Get Rupert Everett instead.

"Even in literature and art, no man who bothers about originality will ever be original: whereas if you simply try to tell the truth you will, nine times out of ten, become original without ever having noticed."- CS Lewis

Topic starter Posted : October 30, 2010 7:50 am
Valiant
(@valiant)
NarniaWeb Guru

For me, they would have to nail the part with Puddleglum at the end for it to be a good movie. Puddleglum chooses to believe in Aslan and Narnia despite how LotGK tempts them all to believe they are not real. They cannot prove that Aslan or Narnia are real, just like we cannot prove God is real, but Puddleglum says he will believe in Aslan even if Aslan doesn't exist. I think that is so beautiful. They need to "get" that part.

As well, I think they should NOT cast Tilda Swinton as the the LotGK. She has appeared as a villian too many times in this series.

Clive Staples Sibelius, I pretty much agree with you on everything. SC is my second favorite book out of the Chronicles after LWW, so I want it done well too! :)


Signature by daughter of the King; Avatar by Adeona
-Thanks :]

Keeper of the Secret Magic

Posted : October 30, 2010 8:39 am
DamselJillPole
(@damseljillpole)
NarniaWeb Fanatic

Clive Staples Sibelius I see where you are coming from and I agree too especially the WW/LOGK being different people and all, but Rupert Everett as Puddleglum? :p Wasn't he the voice of the fox in LWW? His voice would be too familiar and he's already a part of Narnia so I wouldn't think so. How about Matt Smith. He'd be a great Puddleglum. ;)


Long Live King Caspian & Queen Liliandil Forever!
Jill+Tirian! Let there be Jilrian!

Posted : October 30, 2010 9:26 am
wolfloversk
(@wolfloversk)
The Wandering, Wild & Welcoming Winged Wolf Hospitality Committee

Actually I hope they make Puddleglum CGI- and have him be voiced, but I digress

Major points:
1) there is definitely a reason for the journey
2) The White Witch is not the Lady of the Green Kirtle
3) The White Witch does not appear in The Silver Chair
4) The owls need large wingspans
5) Even though the kids make mistakes, Aslan loves them and he helps them out of mercy and grace
6) It's imperitive to have the audience sympathize with Rilian- the Rilian in BBC kind of was too scary and crazy, and not easily sympathised with
7) Rilian needs to look like Caspian
8) be consitent with the books
9) be consistent with the movies (except for when the movies are inconsistent with the books)
10) Puddleglum should be funny and likeable- Don't make him so miserable that the audience will hate him, there's a difference between pessimistic and miserable

"The mountains are calling and I must go, and I will work on while I can, studying incessantly." -John Muir
"Be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed." -Richard Adams, Watership Down

Posted : October 30, 2010 9:39 am
Clive Staples Sibelius
(@clive-staples-sibelius)
NarniaWeb Nut

Clive Staples Sibelius I see where you are coming from and I agree too especially the WW/LOGK being different people and all, but Rupert Everett as Puddleglum? :p Wasn't he the voice of the fox in LWW? His voice would be too familiar and he's already a part of Narnia so I wouldn't think so. How about Matt Smith. He'd be a great Puddleglum. ;)

I did know he voiced the fox in LWW. But how is that an obstacle to him returning to Narnia? I base my hopes for him as Puddleglum based on the fact that: he is tall and has a longish face, and can be made to look like him; secondly, I trust that any good British actor can do a variety of English, Scottish, Irish, Welsh, or Cornish accents. So his youthful voice is not an obstacle in my mind. And I really really really dread the idea of Johnny Depp playing Puddleglum.

Actually I hope they make Puddleglum CGI- and have him be voiced, but I digress

Major points:
6) It's imperitive to have the audience sympathize with Rilian- the Rilian in BBC kind of was too scary and crazy, and not easily sympathised with
7) Rilian needs to look like Caspian
e

I have to nitpick here. I really don't mind appearance or hair color changes, but I want Rilian to look "altogether a bit like Hamlet," like he does in the book. As for sympathizing, I can see where you're coming from. But he should be strange and even disturbed in parts. I like the way that the Focus on the Family production portrayed him, and the way Jeremy Northam reads him in the HarperCollins audiobook. The children MUST DOUBT that he is Rilian.

I really don't think a CGI Puddleglum would be a good idea. Especially for such a huge role.

"Even in literature and art, no man who bothers about originality will ever be original: whereas if you simply try to tell the truth you will, nine times out of ten, become original without ever having noticed."- CS Lewis

Topic starter Posted : October 30, 2010 9:56 am
DamselJillPole
(@damseljillpole)
NarniaWeb Fanatic

^ I didn't say Johnny Depp (all though I believe he could do a role like Puddleglum) I said Matt Smith could do the job mainly because I picture Puddleglum younger, tall and original looking, that would be Matt Smith. Rupert already did a character for this Narnia franchise, this isn't BBC, so I doubt they'll get Rupert again.


Long Live King Caspian & Queen Liliandil Forever!
Jill+Tirian! Let there be Jilrian!

Posted : October 30, 2010 10:14 am
wolfloversk
(@wolfloversk)
The Wandering, Wild & Welcoming Winged Wolf Hospitality Committee

I have to nitpick here. I really don't mind appearance or hair color changes, but I want Rilian to look "altogether a bit like Hamlet," like he does in the book. As for sympathizing, I can see where you're coming from. But he should be strange and even disturbed in parts. I like the way that the Focus on the Family production portrayed him, and the way Jeremy Northam reads him in the HarperCollins audiobook. The children MUST DOUBT that he is Rilian.

I really don't think a CGI Puddleglum would be a good idea. Especially for such a huge role.

Hmm... About him looking like Hamlet, I don't see why he can't look like Caspian and Hamlet at the same time, it's just that since Caspian is his dad- he should look like him, on the same note I should probably have mentioned that he should looks as if he's RD's son to.
I've never listened to the Focus on the Family production, but I agree he should be disturbed in some parts, and that the kids have to doubt that he's Rilian, but when the enchantment is broken he needs to come across as likeable, and it needs to be made obvious that he regrets what happened. It's a matter of timing, I think the audience shouldn't really figure out that he's Rilian until the kids do- that's the way it was in the book, and that's really the best way to approach it, I think.
As for Puddleglum, I always imagined Marshwiggles looking so different from humans, and their proportions were so different that I can't see them having a human in costume- they're much taller and skinnier.

"The mountains are calling and I must go, and I will work on while I can, studying incessantly." -John Muir
"Be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed." -Richard Adams, Watership Down

Posted : October 30, 2010 10:22 am
Clive Staples Sibelius
(@clive-staples-sibelius)
NarniaWeb Nut

^ I didn't say Johnny Depp (all though I believe he could do a role like Puddleglum) I said Matt Smith could do the job mainly because I picture Puddleglum younger, tall and original looking, that would be Matt Smith. Rupert already did a character for this Narnia franchise, this isn't BBC, so I doubt they'll get Rupert again.

I didn't say you said etc :D Lol. Matt Smith might be good. But I still don't think Rupert Everett being in the first one is an obstacle to him returning, Especially for such a big role, of which other actors would no doubt be envious. The fox in LWW wasn't exactly a starring role!

"Even in literature and art, no man who bothers about originality will ever be original: whereas if you simply try to tell the truth you will, nine times out of ten, become original without ever having noticed."- CS Lewis

Topic starter Posted : October 30, 2010 10:24 am
DamselJillPole
(@damseljillpole)
NarniaWeb Fanatic

The person who looks like both Caspian and Lilliandil is Justin Chatwin!!! :D :D :D

On another note I hope Puddleglum isn't CGI either. I hope like Tumnus they only do half CGI but not the entire thing. ;)


Long Live King Caspian & Queen Liliandil Forever!
Jill+Tirian! Let there be Jilrian!

Posted : October 30, 2010 10:25 am
wolfloversk
(@wolfloversk)
The Wandering, Wild & Welcoming Winged Wolf Hospitality Committee

On another note I hope Puddleglum isn't CGI either. I hope like Tumnus they only do half CGI but not the entire thing. ;)

Yeah I guess I could see that, that would help fix the proportion problems.

"The mountains are calling and I must go, and I will work on while I can, studying incessantly." -John Muir
"Be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed." -Richard Adams, Watership Down

Posted : October 30, 2010 10:27 am
Clive Staples Sibelius
(@clive-staples-sibelius)
NarniaWeb Nut

Hmm... About him looking like Hamlet, I don't see why he can't look like Caspian and Hamlet at the same time, it's just that since Caspian is his dad- he should look like him, on the same note I should probably have mentioned that he should looks as if he's RD's son to.

I think you're right. it's not that big a leap from Caspian to Hamlet. I would emphasize the blond hair and black clothes, though.

I've never listened to the Focus on the Family production, but I agree he should be disturbed in some parts, and that the kids have to doubt that he's Rilian, but when the enchantment is broken he needs to come across as likeable, and it needs to be made obvious that he regrets what happened. It's a matter of timing, I think the audience shouldn't really figure out that he's Rilian until the kids do- that's the way it was in the book, and that's really the best way to approach it, I think.
As for Puddleglum, I always imagined Marshwiggles looking so different from humans, and their proportions were so different that I can't see them having a human in costume- they're much taller and skinnier.

You're right. He should be immediately likeable after the transition. As for figuring out who he is, I think the audience will latch on to the idea that he might be Rilian right away. That part I think is (and was intentionally) obvious. The really hard part is for the children to see it through their fear and confusion. Similarly, the audience should be made to doubt their own suspicions.

Puddleglum---you're right again, but I don't think they have to go that far to make him look like a marshwiggle. I imagine them finding a solution much like Peter Jackson and co. did for the hobbits (though in the reverse direction, growth-wise!).

"Even in literature and art, no man who bothers about originality will ever be original: whereas if you simply try to tell the truth you will, nine times out of ten, become original without ever having noticed."- CS Lewis

Topic starter Posted : October 30, 2010 10:31 am
DamselJillPole
(@damseljillpole)
NarniaWeb Fanatic

I hope Rilian doesn't have blond hair. A nice medium or sandy brown would do. IDK I never imagined Rilian nor Tirian with blond hair. :p That's just me.


Long Live King Caspian & Queen Liliandil Forever!
Jill+Tirian! Let there be Jilrian!

Posted : October 30, 2010 10:33 am
Josh
 Josh
(@josh)
NarniaWeb Junkie

They need to nail the role of Puddleglum. And they need to keep all of the spiritual themes as strong as they were in the book from Jill's first meeting of Aslan to Puddleglum's confrontation with the Lady of the Green Kirtle. The later scene is especially important since I think, not only is it the cilmax of the novel, but its what defines the true theme of the Silver Chiar: Faith in something that doesnt make sense to you. Jill had to trust that Aslan wouldnt eat her at the river. The three main characters had to trust in Aslan when the signs werent making sense or when the seemingly insane Knight called Aslan's name and they feared he may kill them if he was freed. And the scene where they are being enchanted, Puddlglum says it would be better to believe in Aslan even if he wasnt real then to accept life as a dull and dark place like Underland.

I also want the cinematography and the music to be perfect. Music can make or break a film. I also want a consistant tone. I think the film should be mature, not dark, but taken seriously. It shouldnt have a kiddie Shrek feel to it. There should be moments that capture child-like wonder (such as entering Narnia, flying on the Owls, discovering a snow filled celebration after escaping the underworld), but the film itself should not be kiddy. I think the tone should become more darker once they enter Underland, but after the Witch is defeated I want there to be a sense of relief.

And they must establish a believable bond between Jill, Eustace, and Puddleglum. They are my favorite group of characters in the series. They need to have onscreen chemistry together in order to make the film work.

Now I really really really don't want Tilda to play the LotGK. I want a younger more beautiful woman (with preferably red or black hair) to play her. That said, if they cast Tilda as LotGK BUT manage to get every other aspect of the film right, I won't be too disapointed.

Winter Is Coming

Posted : October 30, 2010 10:50 am
wolfloversk
(@wolfloversk)
The Wandering, Wild & Welcoming Winged Wolf Hospitality Committee

I hope Rilian doesn't have blond hair. A nice medium or sandy brown would do. IDK I never imagined Rilian nor Tirian with blond hair. :p That's just me.

I imagined Tirian with blond hair, and Rilian with brown or black, but since RD is going to have blond hair it would make sence for Rilian to have it too.

"The mountains are calling and I must go, and I will work on while I can, studying incessantly." -John Muir
"Be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed." -Richard Adams, Watership Down

Posted : October 30, 2010 12:25 pm
waggawerewolf27
(@waggawerewolf27)
Member Hospitality Committee

Now I really really really don't want Tilda to play the LotGK. I want a younger more beautiful woman (with preferably red or black hair) to play her. That said, if they cast Tilda as LotGK BUT manage to get every other aspect of the film right, I won't be too disapointed.

I don't think filmmakers would do that. Whilst I can see Tilda Swinton being cast as a giant or something else in the film, I doubt that Walden would want her to play LOTGK as well as the White Witch. That would increase the perception that the Emerald Witch and the White Witch were one and the same.

For myself, I was thinking Helen Mirren or Helen Bonham Carter as alternative witches. Probably the former as she has already played a more cool, calm and collected role than the latter has.

I wonder if Ben Barnes would be able to play King Caspian again, but in his old age. He does appear twice in the novel, and also I want to see what the back story is going to be like for SC.

I think Rilian needs very careful acting. What is wrong with Rilian is as much psychological as it is physical.

Posted : October 30, 2010 1:11 pm
Page 1 / 8
Share: