If you feel that this discussion should go in the thread about Tirian's viewing experience go ahead and move it.
Okay, so Tirian said Apted feels the movie is about temptation and how to deal with it. So the question is, which scenes from the book do you think will make it into the film, that vividly capture this theme of temptation? Do you feel that is a fair analysis of the book?
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I don't think Temptation is the only theme in VDT but it's definitely one of the strongest in the book. It's nice to see Apted acknowledge that fact. What scenes deal with temptation? Many of them. There's Eustace with the treasure, Lucy with the Magician's Book, Caspian with the water that turns everything to gold, to name just a few.
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Everything that Warrior 4 Jesus said, and also Caspian is tempted to leave and go to Aslan's country at the world's end. I'm glad they recognized this theme and applied it into the film!
The Value of myth is that it takes all the things you know and restores to them the rich significance which has been hidden by the veil of familiarity. C.S. Lewis
The sailors are tempted to go to the island where dreams come true.
That's all that I can think of besides those mentioned.
I hadn't thought of VDT as a story about temptation before, but now that they mention it, I suppose it is.
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the fact that they chose such a concept and theme as temptation for this 'children's' movie means this is going to be a VERY VERY good movie, this is going to exceed my expectations, just think about it, its genius, to incorporate such a solid sentiment as temptation is complex for a movie like this, and by early screening report, this film will dethrone LWW as the emotional.aventure.fantasy film weve been waiting to come along since LWW
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When I heard that temptation was to be a major theme in the movie, I thought of a few instances where that was in the book, and thought, "Hm, okay, I guess I can see that..." But now that I've read all of the ones mentioned here, I realize it's more of a theme in the book than I originally thought! Let's compile them:
1. Eustace in the Dragon Treasure Trove
2. Lucy and Coriakin's book
3. Caspian and Edmund at Deathwater Island
4. Caspian and the end of the World
5. The Sailors at Dark Island
6. The last three Lords at Ramandu's island (one of them grabbed the knife)
7. (this one may be pushing it) Gumpas was overcome with temptation and greed, which led to the slave trade taking deep root in the Lone Islands
My question is, how does the Gael subplot fit with this theme of temptation, if at all?
"Of course we've got to find him (if we can). That's the nuisance of it. It means a search party and endless trouble. Bother Eustace." ~ Caspian, The Voyage of the Dawn Treader
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Gael is tempted by her mother to jump off the boat.
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The scariest thing about the theme being temptation is what the filmmakers will be tempted to do.
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The ones that seem to be the most temptation-like are when Eustace puts on that fancy bracelet that turns him into a dragon and when Caspian is way too fascinated by the gold in Goldwater Island.
Curiously, while Caspian is fascinated by Ramandu's daughter, it's not like she makes him forget everything else. So temptation in VDT seems more about material greed than personal lust.
I think saying that the theme of VDT is temptation is like saying that the theme of LWW is death. Not totally off track, but still not there. Not totally missing the point, but falling short of the point.
The essence of VDT is: The longing for one's true home, and ultimately, the joy of finding it. It is true that there are a few instances throughout the story where characters are "tempted" in some way, but I would be very reluctant to call temptation an important theme in the story.
The climax of the story is all about people discovering their heart's true desire. It has nothing to do with temptation or greed. Even Caspian wanting to go with Reep is more about longing than temptation. When the Pevensies are told they will never come to Narnia again, they are heartbroken because of their longing for Aslan. But then Aslan tells them that he is in their world too, and that should bring them great joy. This is why "there I have another name" is so essential to the theme of the story. The ending is about the joy of finding your heart's true desire. If Aslan tells the kids that they will forever be separated from their heart's true desire, it will be in direct conflict with that. We must have the sense that they can still somehow continue to know Aslan in their world.
At the end of the story, Reep has found something better than life. His heart's true desire. Something so strong that it causes Reep to throw away everything we thought he was about. All along, Reep himself thought that what his heart truly desired was honor, adventure, and death-and-glory charges. At the end, it becomes clear that what he was truly longing for was Aslan's country, and perhaps the honor of battle only reminded him of that somehow. To quote Jewel at the end of LB: "I have come home at last! This is my real country! I belong here. This is the land I have been looking for all my life, though I never knew it till now. The reason why we loved the old Narnia is that it sometimes looked a little like this." Once Reep realizes that, he throws his sword away. That is one of the most powerful character moments in the entire series.
This is why I've always said that Reep, while not the main character, is the heart of VDT.
(If you want to see a powerful film about longing, watch WALL*E)
glumPuddle, what you said there is spot-on. I think in all the hype for the movie to come out, I haven't really taken a close look at what VDT is really about in a long time. Your post reminded me of powerful things I saw in that story years ago, but unfortunately forgot. It makes me want to read the book again; I think it's been over a year since the last time I read that one. Temptation, while present, isn't the main point of the story, like you said. I guess we'll have to see more of what Apted meant before making any judgements. Here's to hoping that the story's true themes remain!
"Of course we've got to find him (if we can). That's the nuisance of it. It means a search party and endless trouble. Bother Eustace." ~ Caspian, The Voyage of the Dawn Treader
Sig: lover of narnia
I don't know...I mean I can definitely see the longing theme if you look at Reepicheep's character, but it's not all about Reep. I never really saw VDT as the next Wizard of Oz. It seems to me that each character has a different theme. Although, I really feel that the story is focused around Eustace, and the change he goes through. I wouldn't exactly consider his theme to be longing. Yes, I guess he does long to go back to England at the beginning of the story, but I think his is more about a transformation from a selfish individual. Because of his greed he falls to every temptation, whether it be getting water in the middle of night, or desiring the riches of the dragon's cave. All he cares about is himself and his desires.
If you just looked at Eustace's character I'd think the theme of the story was selfish/selflessness.
My point is that depending on which character you focus on, you will get a different idea of what the story is about.
I think they may have chose temptation because there is a lot you can do with that one to make the story quite interesting. I still think the theme of longing will come through, it just might not be the focus of the story.
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It's not so much that it ISN'T temptation, but that it is meant to be about following your heart's desire, following a quest/task, going the right way to get to where you need to be - yet the characters are constantly being misled, distracted, or finding things that take them away from their purpose.
Temptation is in a good number of those incidents.
(And don't forget Eustace being tempted to go at night to get extra water during the calm hot time.)
There, shining in the sunrise, larger than they had seen him before, shaking his mane (for it had apparently grown again) stood Aslan himself.
"...when a willing victim who had committed no treachery was killed in a traitor's stead, the Table would crack and Death itself would start working backwards."
I don't know...I mean I can definitely see the longing theme if you look at Reepicheep's character, but it's not all about Reep. I never really saw VDT as the next Wizard of Oz. It seems to me that each character has a different theme.
Why would you ever only look at one character? The book is not called "Eustace" or "Reepicheep." It is called "The Voyage of the Dawn Treader." The question is, what is the main theme of the book as a whole? When you finish reading, what are you left with?
The voyage itself is all about longing. The feeling that there must be something else out there. That the world we know cannot be all that there is (even though the Telmarines would have us believe there is nothing more). This feeling builds and builds throughout the story. The climax is all about the joy of finding your heart's true desire. The ending has nothing to do with temptation or greed. The place where the story ends up is all about the joy of finding your heart's true desire.
It is true that you see death many times throughout LWW. Narnia itself is experiencing a kind of death. The statues give us a very powerful image of death Edmund goes through a kind of death, his life is "forfeit" to the Witch. And of course, Aslan is killed. Is death the theme of LWW? No, because the resolution is ultimately about redemption. If you stopped reading halfway through LWW, I can see you believing that the theme is death. Likewise, if you stopped reading halfway through VDT, I can see you believing that the theme is temptation. But I would then advise you to keep reading and see where the story goes. If the theme is temptation, it ultimately doesn't go anywhere.
Longing is a theme that pops up in other Narnia stories too. Caspian and the Telmarine people have a longing for the old days to return. Shasta has been longing to go north all his life, feeling that there must be some great secret that way. The last third of LB is all about the characters discovering the place they have always been longing for, even though they knew it not. Lewis himself often wrote about the idea of longing, and one of his greatest evidences for the existence of God was the longing that all people feel for something more. Why would we all long for something more if there wasn't something more?
Why would you ever only look at one character?
I don't know. I thought that is what you were doing. I was just trying to say that it's not all about Reepicheep.
I do think that temptation is a MUCH stronger theme in TMN, but it is interwoven into VDT quite a bit as well.
Check out "The Magician's Nephew" and "The Last Battle" trailers I created!
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