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The Role of World War 2 in Narnia Adaptations

Courtenay
(@courtenay)
NarniaWeb Fanatic Hospitality Committee

This is a subject that came up in another discussion (original thread here) and, as it was going off topic, it was suggested that we should start a new thread for it.

The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe is set during the Second World War — in 1940, according to Lewis's later timeline — and we're told right at the beginning of the story that the four children were "sent away from London during the war because of the air-raids", which is how they came to be at the Professor's house. Lewis doesn't make any further references to the real-life war, implicitly or explicitly, in the rest of the story or in any of the other Narnia books. However, some adaptations of LWW — including the 2005 Walden film and a stage production in the UK in late 2019 — have made a big feature of the wartime setting and even drawn deliberate parallels between the war that the Pevensies are fleeing in their own world and the war of resistance to the White Which that they find themselves in when they enter Narnia.

I'd just like to copy over the relevant parts of posts in the previous thread so that others can see what's been brought up so far on this topic — I hope this is OK and won't make this post too long:

 

Posted by: @courtenay

[There was one aspect of the 2019 theatre production] that also came somewhat into the 2005 film of LWW, but this stage version emphasised it even more — drawing very clear parallels between the war the children are experiencing as WW2 evacuees, and the war of resistance that the Narnians are fighting against the White Witch. That is a fairly obvious connection and I'm not surprised to see modern interpretations of LWW making a big deal of it, but the fact is that Lewis himself doesn't do that at all. He mentions "the war" once in the second sentence of the first chapter of the book and makes absolutely zero references to it thereafter. And he was writing this book only five years after the actual war ended, so it's not as if it was a distant memory for him or for many of his readers!! But either it didn't occur to him to make any comparison between the recent real-life war and Narnia's struggle, or he deliberately avoided doing so. Whichever way, that also steers readers away from any sense that Narnia is a product of — or a projection of — the children's imagination. Again, it'll be interesting to see whether Netflix does anything at all in that direction.

 

Posted by: @icarus

Although I agree with you that the 2005 Movie makes a very obvious attempt to draw this sort of parallel between the Narnian World and the Real World, I never felt like it had any thematic resonance, largely because as you say the Narnian's are fighting a war of resistance in an occupied country against a hostile regime, whereas even in the darkest days of WW2, Britain was merely surrounded but was never occupied (apart from the Channel Islands). Therefore its not as if the Pevensie's can really relate their "struggle" of being evacuated to the fairly opulent surroundings of an upper class country estate, to the struggles of the Beavers living under the brutally oppressive regime of a hostile foreign power. If CS Lewis had been intending to make WW2 a thematic quality of the book, with the White Witch being a commentary on Fascism, then he would have been better placed to set the story in occupied France (or the aforementioned Channel Islands), but he didn't.

 

Posted by: @courtenay

That's a good point. I've only seen the movie once and don't remember that aspect of it very well, but I agree it wasn't something that resonated throughout the entire film. Whereas the stage production I saw last year — to be fair, this was in Britain just as we're beginning to commemorate the 80th anniversary of each stage of WW2 — milked the "war" themes for all they were worth. We as the audience were all given period-style "evacuee" tickets that we had to wave for effect a couple of times during the play; the opening scene made a big deal of a large group of children, including the four Pevensies, being officially processed and directed to their train carriages and making a (symbolically staged) journey to their destination; and throughout much of their time in Narnia, there were several invented-for-the-play "Narnian Resistance" characters (a badger, a squirrel and a couple of others I can't quite remember) popping up periodically from trapdoors in the stage to give secret reports to each other (through tin-can phones!) about the four children's progress through Narnia. It was made clear that these "resistance" characters were the ones that commissioned the Beavers to find the children and direct them to Aslan. An inventive and fun take on the story, but it gave it quite a different overall "feel" from the original book — and I like your point that Britain, unlike many European countries, wasn't actually occupied by the Nazis, so the supposed parallel with Narnia's occupation doesn't really work. I hadn't quite thought of that, but it does underscore the fact that Lewis WASN'T trying to make the real-life war a thematic element of the story.

 

It'd be interesting to hear others' thoughts on this topic too — do you think bringing out the WW2 theme enhances or detracts from the story of The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe? Have you seen other adaptations that do this, and do you think Netflix ought to do something along those lines too?

"Now you are a lioness," said Aslan. "And now all Narnia will be renewed."
(Prince Caspian)

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Topic starter Posted : July 8, 2020 1:17 pm
icarus
(@icarus)
NarniaWeb Guru

So I'll extend from my earlier point about why I don't feel that WW2 is a relevant thematic component of LWW, even if recent adaptations such as the Walden movie have leaned heavily into it...

My first point was that the situation the Pevensie's find in Narnia (with Narnia essentially occupied by a hostile foreign power, and the people ruled over by an oppressive regime) is not even remotely comparable to the situation that the Pevensie's left behind in England. I doubt the Children could really relate any sense of hardship at being relocated into the very comfortable life at the Professor's country estate, with the genuine injustices that the Narnians had suffered through in the last 100 years.

Perhaps however if you did want to follow this line of thematic connection through, you would need to focus more on the "this is what could happen to England if the outcome of WW2 were negative", however since the Pevensie's have no real means to apply what they have learnt in Narnia to influence the outcome of WW2 back home in the real world, I don't really think there would be much pay-off to having this as the emotional arc, or key learning point of the movie.

The other main counter-point against making LWW somehow a parable about WW2, is that the White Witch is in no way a compelling allegory for Fascism. To the extent that i understand it, the ideology of Fascism is not especially specific towards any real social or economic policy positions, but is rather more about the belief that the dominant majority can wield power over the oppressed minority, if that majority is united in a common purpose (the word "fascism" is literally derived from the Italian word for a bundle of sticks - i.e. sticks alone can be easily broken, sticks bundled together are strong). Therefore Fascism is an inherently populist movement and requires the willing consent of a disaffected majority to dominate a vulnerable minority. I don't think there is any reading of LWW which can infer that as being the state of politics in Narnia.

If anything the White Witch seems to rule over Narnia with only a small minority of mythical creatures backing her, but largely retains power by the fact that she has exclusive control over magic, which she can wield to her advantage. That therefore would make Narnia much more comparable to the many countries historically and to this date which are ruled over by a minority monarchy that has the backing of the armed forces, even in spite of widespread dissent within their populations. Either way, its just not a comparable situation to WW2.

All of that being said however.....

You might think that this interpretation of the book would mean that WW2 is completely thematically irrelevant to the story, and that therefore there is no plausible reason why I could possibly object to changing the time period of the story in any upcoming adaptations. And to some extent you'd be right, as i'm not sure i could come up with a compelling reason as to why an adaptation of LWW has to be set during WW2, other than that's the way it is in the book, and that's the way i'd prefer it to be. But if someone can think of a compelling thematic reason as to why LWW can only be told as a story within the context of WW2 i'd love to hear it.

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Posted : July 8, 2020 2:05 pm
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Carley
(@carley)
Member Knight of NarniaWeb

I'm fine with the way the movie draws parallels between the war in their own world and in Narnia, because of how subtly it's done.  But I think it is possible for them to go too far with it.  I want Narnia to feel real, and it seems more a product of the Pevensies' imagination when compared to their own world in that way. In much the same way using one actor for two different roles takes away the original meaning.  I think I would prefer Netflix not make any parallels at all, to keep Narnia as its own, different world.  

I also don't think C.S. Lewis ever meant for there to be these parallels.  He only mentions the war, because that is why the Pevensies are staying with the Professor.  That may be its only importance to the books, and I think it's too risky to try and draw parallels that aren't clearly present in the books.

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Posted : July 8, 2020 2:30 pm
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Reepicheep775
(@reepicheep775)
NarniaWeb Junkie

One problem with setting the story in present day that I didn't think of until today is that it might hinder the sense of isolation Peter and Susan feel when they fear that Lucy might be losing her mind. They are out in the countryside "ten miles from the nearest railway station and two miles from the nearest post office" and there is no indication that the Professor has a telephone. They could write back home, but that will take time, leaving the Professor the only person they have to seek help.

In present day, their parents would be only a phone call or a Zoom chat away. You could get creative and think of some way to put them off the grid, but it may be a challenge to think of something that doesn't feel contrived e.g. like in a horror movie when everyone's wifi mysteriously shuts down. Then again, maybe that could be a reinterpretation of the magic that seemingly chases the kids into Narnia.

I also think that Lewis might have been doing something thematically with the WWII setting, but I can't say for sure. The best I have is the fact that Lewis lamented the lack of the "Jovial quality" in modern times. I wish I could remember where I read that... it might have been in Planet Narnia... but The Discarded Image describes Joviality as "cheerful, festive yet temperate, tranquil, magnanimous". This quality that Lewis felt the modern world lacked, and the anti-Jovial spirit arguably reached its peak during the terrible World Wars, is the same quality that the White Witch has stamped out of Narnia. 

I would put my money there before I would the idea that Lewis was trying to directly mirror recent political events. I don't think that Lewis was the type to write political allegories... at least adult Lewis (what he wrote as a child is another story! Giggle ).

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Posted : July 8, 2020 2:58 pm
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Wanderer Between Worlds
(@wanderer)
NarniaWeb Nut

     When I read LWW as a child, I didn’t catch on to that World War II aspect of the story.  It’s simply mentioned that the Pevensies go to the country because of the air raids.  I had no idea then of the scope of World War II or what it meant in the grand scheme of history.  In fact, the only reason that I began to think about World War II and how it possibly impacted the characters was because of the Walden movie’s emphasis at the beginning.   It’s been a while since I’ve watched it, but I like what they did, showing the evacuation. I didn’t make the thematic connection of the war in Narnia vs. the war in England until Narniawebbers pointed that out, so I think that the way Walden’s LWW handled it was subtle enough while still being effective.  While I don’t think that the movie should draw strict parallels between World War II and the world of Narnia (I think that it would encourage the idea that Narnia was less real, as other have pointed out, and pushes the story into more strict and limiting allegory-territory), I think that ignoring World War II altogether would be a detriment as well.  

     Maybe it’s because of my interest in history, but I believe that having a slight emphasis on World War II, especially in the beginning, would enhance the story.  For example, I heard someone say that the part of the reason why Edmund was so delighted to have Turkish Delight and attempted to “shovel” it down all at once (aside from the fact that it was Enchanted) was because of the sugar rationing during the War, thus meaning that he probably didn’t have access to many sweet things.  I think this little detail is in enhanced by the backdrop of the war, and at least for me, it added another layer to the scene.  The directors could even juxtapose the Pevensies’ (and especially Lucy’s) childlike innocence with allusions to the darkness of the War.  I think that realizing/hinting at just how dark the War was makes Narnia all the more special and real—all the more hope-filled and inspiring.  @courtenay makes a good point that when LWW was written, World War II was only five years in the past and everyone who read the book when it was published—young and old—knew about the war and was deeply affected by it.  There was probably quite a bit of understood nuance that is mostly lost on audiences today. I think this is another reason that the World War II scenes should be at least a little more fleshed out.  Context, at least for me, adds so many more layers.

     All that said, I believe that incorporating the World War II would be a very fine line to walk.  It could to quickly devolve into an angst-ridden drama, focusing too much on how the war affects the Pevensies, therefore adding a layer that is not the spirit of the book, in my opinion.  (I think that this may have happened a little bit with Edmund in Walden’s LWW, as I’ve heard people interpret his character as very angst-ridden and in an overly sympathetic light, which I do not think is the book’s characterization). The adaptation could also become too dark or prominent and detract from the real heart of the story—Narnia.  

     While not necessarily a thematic reason, I believe that the story should still beset during World War II because the (currently perceived) simplicity of the time period (i.e. less technology) mirrors the simplicity of the story in LWW compared to the other books.  And period costumes are always a plus!  Also, what alternative time periods would Narnia be set in?  The most probable one I can see is present-day, and I would be completely against that. Not only would they most likely have to contrive the scenario as @reepicheep775 pointed out, I think modernizing it would cheapen the story.  My main concern is that when directors/script-writers modernize adaptations, they often try to update them to be “hip” and “cool”—two concepts that I think are the antithesis of Narnia.  Narnia as a concept and a story feels very timeless (perhaps aided by the fact that the War is only vaguely alluded to). If the directors tried to set Narnia in the modern-day, what would they try to change?  Would they make the words “dude” or “bro” come out of Edmund’s mouth or have Susan text “lol” to her friends on a cellphone because the writers wanted to use modern slang?  Would they replace the wardrobe with a walk-in closet or write the Professor as bitterly cynical because they want the adaptation to be edgy and relatable?  I just don’t think it would make sense, sort of like Reepicheep’s “Shut up!” directed at Pattertwig.

       I hope all of this makes sense. Smile   Ultimately, I think that World War II should be incorporated (even if briefly) and that Narnia should still be set in during World War II,  as setting it in any other time period (especially present-day) would just require too many backflips to make it work.

—Wanderer 

This post was modified 4 years ago 2 times by Wanderer Between Worlds

"I am,” said Aslan. "But there I have another name. You must learn to know me by that name. This was the very reason why you were brought to Narnia, that by knowing me here for a little, you may know me better there.”

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Posted : July 8, 2020 8:27 pm
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Glenwit
(@glenwit)
NarniaWeb Nut

I might have a slightly different opinion on this than some other people on here.

I do agree with the general sentiment which I'm picking up on, that the Netflix series shouldn't attempt to make the war a major theme (or at least, any more than CS Lewis did).  

However, I also would not mind some WWII imagery, if not for other reason than to flesh out the characters and the world that they are living in at the time when the story begins.  I also wouldn't have an issue with that if it is done in such a way as to aid in character development, and even provide context for themes that were already at the forefront of the novel.  I think that would be a compelling way of using the times (as opposed to making World War II an Earth parallel to the resistance against the Age of Winter in Narnia).  

In my mind, there's always been a big difference between 'fabricating' a theme that isn't in the source material (and playing up details which might be an afterthought in order to justify that) and taking themes which are already in the source material organically (family, sacrifice and even some payoff to themes explored in the Magician's Nephew come to mind here) and fleshing them out by expanding on implied narratives (as the Walden films proved, there is so much you can do with a line like 'sent away because of the air raids' - but there can also be too much, for the wrong reasons). 

This is the journey
This is the trial
For the hero inside us all
I can hear adventure call
Here we go

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Posted : July 14, 2020 9:17 am
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Col Klink
(@col-klink)
NarniaWeb Junkie
Posted by: @glenwit

I also wouldn't have an issue with that if it is done in such a way as to aid in character development, and even provide context for themes that were already at the forefront of the novel.

Which themes?

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Posted : August 9, 2020 10:45 am
Glenwit
(@glenwit)
NarniaWeb Nut
Posted by: @col-klink

Which themes?

I left you hanging for a week, sorry about that! 🙂

Some themes I think apply are one paragraph down.  
If not just literary themes, then even certain details that would make the story more historically accurate.  Same with Aslan's forshadowing in MN (comparing Jadis' behaviour on Charn with certain people to come in Digory and Polly's own world).  A series, especially if it will expand on novels, will have more compelling and believable characters if they are developed through external factors before they find themselves on the main plot (which would hopefully still be consistent with CS Lewis' vision, but you get my drift).  

This is the journey
This is the trial
For the hero inside us all
I can hear adventure call
Here we go

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Posted : August 19, 2020 12:10 pm
Jasmine
(@jasmine_tarkheena)
NarniaWeb Guru

I could see that Walden was trying to connect what is happening in our world (WWII or the air raids in London) with what is happening in Narnia (an army getting ready to defeat the White Witch). While it is done well, it almost tends to go overboard. 

That would be a concern. CS Lewis hated war, though he was not a pacifist. Both he and Tolkien actually understood the horrors of war. 

This could actually be true of any of the Narnia stories-

LWW- WWII and a battle against the White Witch

PC- The Pevensies waiting for the train to go to school and Caspian and other Telmarine children having to be taught a re-written history. 

VDT- I’m not sure on this one.

SC- The bullying aspect at Experiment House and Caspian about to die without an heir. 

HHB- Not really a connection between what’s going on in our world and in Narnia in this story. 

MN- This is a tough one. Perhaps Asian’s foreshadowing of what has happened in Charn and our world was becoming more like it. 

LB- This is also a tough one. Maybe Susan’s disbelief in Narnia and Rishda’s disbelief in Tash or any of the supernatural. 

"And this is the marvel of marvels, that he called me beloved."
(Emeth, The Last Battle)
https://escapetoreality.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/aslan-and-emeth2.jpg

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Posted : July 3, 2023 5:40 pm
PrinceRillianIX
(@rilianix)
NarniaWeb Nut

I think maybe with The Magician's Nephew, you could maybe say, while I don't think it's necessarily explored, that there's a significance with Narnia being created, and the fact that the story is set during the turn of the century, 1900. The end of the 19th century, the beginning of Narnia? 

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Posted : July 3, 2023 6:11 pm
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Jasmine
(@jasmine_tarkheena)
NarniaWeb Guru

@rillianix 

I can see that. MN is set during late Victorian period, which according to the time line, it was the last year of Queen Victoria's reign. England was about to enter a new era, and Narnia was totally a new world.

We can even have a whole discussion about the possibilities of a Narnia film or series connecting what is happening in our world with what is happening in Narnia.

"And this is the marvel of marvels, that he called me beloved."
(Emeth, The Last Battle)
https://escapetoreality.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/aslan-and-emeth2.jpg

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Posted : July 3, 2023 6:13 pm
icarus
(@icarus)
NarniaWeb Guru
Posted by: @jasmine_tarkheena

We can even have a whole discussion about the possibilities of a Narnia film or series connecting what is happening in our world with what is happening in Narnia.

I'm not sure there would be much value in that, given than 5 of the 7 books are set during World War 2, and as we have previously discussed, none of the Narnia stories have any thematic relevance to the events of World War 2 at all.

It would be an even bigger stretch to argue that The Last Battle has anything to do with the Cold War, and MN being set in 1900 is also purely incidental and immaterial to the narrative.

To connect what happens in Narnia with real world events for every story, you would first have to fundamentally change every story, and then you would have to change the very nature of what Narnia is, as a real world in-and-of-itself.

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Posted : July 4, 2023 4:07 pm
Jasmine
(@jasmine_tarkheena)
NarniaWeb Guru
Posted by: @icarus

It would be an even bigger stretch to argue that The Last Battle has anything to do with the Cold War, and MN being set in 1900 is also purely incidental and immaterial to the narrative.

I believe the Cold War was 1947-1991. Though can't imagine if The Last Battle had any connections with that.

Trying to connect what is happening in our world to what is happening in Narnia is kind of a stretch. I could see that Walden was trying to do that in LWW with WWII.

"And this is the marvel of marvels, that he called me beloved."
(Emeth, The Last Battle)
https://escapetoreality.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/aslan-and-emeth2.jpg

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Posted : July 4, 2023 4:46 pm
coracle
(@coracle)
NarniaWeb's Auntie Moderator

The main reason the war came into the stories was that it was immediately recent history, familiar to almost everyone; and English children could barely walk down the street without seeing effects of bombing etc in most big towns and cities. There was still rationing of some foods when LWW came out.

It also connects with child evacuees at Lewis's home, something he knew about, and had happened in most families. 

A third reason it works best from the period he set it, is the children's knowledge of knights-in-armour sort of stories and history. Today's children have much different fantasy and adventure material in their books and tv/movies. 

There, shining in the sunrise, larger than they had seen him before, shaking his mane (for it had apparently grown again) stood Aslan himself.
"...when a willing victim who had committed no treachery was killed in a traitor's stead, the Table would crack and Death itself would start working backwards."

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Posted : July 6, 2023 2:16 pm
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Courtenay
(@courtenay)
NarniaWeb Fanatic Hospitality Committee

I remember saying this somewhere else before, but possibly the biggest problem with making events in Narnia reflect events in this world is that it could easily suggest that Narnia is not a real world at all, but some kind of projection of the children's imaginations and subconscious hopes and fears. It'd be almost exactly like what MGM did with The Wizard of Oz all those years ago — make it that Oz is a sort of vivid dream that Dorothy has when she's knocked unconscious during the cyclone, and most of the characters she meets there are disguised versions of people she knows from her waking life, and after she's confronted her fears and sorted out her feelings about home, she wakes up safe in her bed. It's a good film in itself and a classic, but that aspect of it is not at all what the book was aiming at (or its many sequels, for that matter!).

To me, it'd be even worse to suggest the same about Narnia, that it's a dream or a fantasy that the children are somehow collectively experiencing and it reflects what's going on in their day-to-day lives. It'd completely contradict the nature of the stories and what Lewis was wanting readers to glean from them. Actually, it'd be just like what the Green Witch suggests and what Susan famously comes to believe — that Narnia is just a dream or a silly game that these children made up to amuse themselves, and it never actually existed as a real world in its own right. I hope to goodness no film director will ever take it that way!!

"Now you are a lioness," said Aslan. "And now all Narnia will be renewed."
(Prince Caspian)

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Topic starter Posted : July 6, 2023 3:08 pm
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