I have to side a tiny bit with glumpuddle on Reepicheep's longing for Aslan's Country in the movie. I really missed the line Reepicheep gave at Ramandu Island about swimming to Aslan's Country with his own four paws and he sinks he knew he'd be in that world soon. Something along those lines. It's really been a long time since I've read these books. I need to start back.

Yeah I felt it was missing too... They only mentioned it for two scenes really... They could have played off of it a lot, lot more...

Could you tell me how many times they lyrics are written out in the book?

It is all quoted in the first post in this thread. The lyrics are written out twice, but the first time the context could not be more different from the movie. Caspian says that Reep has an even “higher hope” than finding the seven lords. All the attention is on Reep. Reep then recites the verse. The entire focus of the scene is on the lyrics, and their possible relevence to the voyage. And the lyrics are impossible to miss, unless the reader decided to skip that whole paragraph for some strange reason. In the movie, the lyrics are just background noise for an epic shot of the Dawn Treader. They are not the focus.

I wouldn't call it weaker... Weaker, isn't really the right word because it still held the same power for me.

I cannot wrap my mind around that. You say it held the same power as the book. Is there anything in the movie that conveys the sense of longing as much as this?:
"While I can, I sail east in the Dawn Treader. When she fails me, I paddle east in my coracle. When she sinks, I shall swim east with my four paws. And when I can swim no longer, if I have not reached Aslan’s country, or shot over the edge of the world in some vast cataract, I shall sink with my nose to the sunrise and Peepiceek will be head of the talking mice in Narnia."

...Or this?:
"Yes, yes," cried Reepicheep, clapping his paws together. "That's how I've always imagined it - the World like a great round table and the waters of all the oceans endlessly pouring over the edge. The ship will tip up stand on her head - for one moment we shall see over the edge - and then, down, down, the rush, the speed -"
"And what do you think will be waiting for us at the bottom, eh?" said Drinian.
"Aslan's country perhaps," said the Mouse, its eyes shining. "Or perhaps there isn't any bottom. Perhaps it goes down for ever and ever. But whatever it is, won't it be worth anything just to have looked for one moment beyond the edge of the world."

Just to be clear, here is my question to you: Are there any scenes in the film that convey the same level of longing as the above excerpts? If so, what scenes?

In the first excerpt, Reep makes it clear he has decided to either reach Aslan's country or die trying. In the second, he says it would be "worth anything" just to look beyond the world for "one moment."

How many times was his longing actually mentioned in the book in comparison to the size of the book?

See the two excerpts I just quoted above. There is no scene in the film that conveys that level of longing. In the book, Reep would gladly die just for the honour of looking beyond the world for one moment.

I don’t think the number of pages or words is a good standard, but Reep talks more about Aslan’s country in just those two excerpts than he does in the entire movie. And those two moments are far more powerful and convey much more longing than any scenes in the film.
There are numerous other examples. Reepicheep says that "the spell" of the verse has been on him all his life. Before reaching the Lone Islands, Lewis talks about how Reep "who never felt that the ship was getting on fast enough" would often sit beside the dragon prow and hum the verse to himself. At the Lone Islands, Reep is "delighted" when a man says he believes Aslan's country lies east (Shorlty after that, Bern asks Caspian to end the voyage at the Lone Islands, but Caspian replies "What could I say to Reepicheep?"). When Ramandu explains that someone from their company must remain at Aslan's country in order to wake the sleeping lords, Reepicheep says "that is my heart's desire." The scene where he discovers the sweet water is also much much longer in the book, and a much more serious moment (in the movie, the others just kind of giggle). And of course, the two excerpts I quoted above where Reep makes it clear that he would gladly die just for the honor of looking beyond the world for one moment.

Besides Reepicheep, I would also mention how Edmund talks about Aslan's country in an "awed voice" at the beginning, and Caspian's memorable speech at Ramandu's Island about what an honor seeing the world's end will be.

I don’t see how you can say that the theme of longing was demoted, but not acknowledge that it was weakened.

(In my opinion, the tune they picked for the verse was all wrong. It sounds more like a bubblegum commercial, and didn't have the wonder it needed. The BBC radio drama did a pretty good job on that)

I wrote:
I wouldn't call it weaker... Weaker, isn't really the right word because it still held the same power for me.

glumPuddle wrote:
I cannot wrap my mind around that. You say it held the same power as the book. Is there anything in the movie that conveys the sense of longing as much as this?
"While I can, I sail east in the Dawn Treader. When she fails me, I paddle east in my coracle. When she sinks, I shall swim east with my four paws. And when I can swim no longer, if I have not reached Aslan’s country, or shot over the edge of the world in some vast cataract, I shall sink with my nose to the sunrise and Peepiceek will be head of the talking mice in Narnia."

...Or this?:
"Yes, yes," cried Reepicheep, clapping his paws together. "That's how I've always imagined it - the World like a great round table and the waters of all the oceans endlessly pouring over the edge. The ship will tip up stand on her head - for one moment we shall see over the edge - and then, down, down, the rush, the speed -"
"And what do you think will be waiting for us at the bottom, eh?" said Drinian.
"Aslan's country perhaps," said the Mouse, its eyes shining. "Or perhaps there isn't any bottom. Perhaps it goes down for ever and ever. But whatever it is, won't it be worth anything just to have looked for one moment beyond the edge of the world."

For me, the ending scene where Reepicheep laid down his sword held the same power as what I read in the book. I guess I'm more of a visual person anyway, so to see the expression of longing on his face and to hear the longing in his voice along with the actual words held as much power as reading the above words on a page. I could see the longing most clearly at the end but I also caught it sprinkled throughout the film. It does no good to mention all the places I saw it, as I already have.

I would like to say (hopefullly without offending you, because I do respect you) that I do not think it's fair for you to compare the book and the film as far as how often the longing is mentioned and how much it comes through. I'm going to take a wild guess and say you've read The Voyage of the Dawn Treader many times and noticed pretty much every detail and gotten most everything you can out of the book. Correct? I'm going to take another wild guess and say you've only seen The Voyage of the Dawn Treader once. I'm going to take one final wild guess and assume you are like me, in that you don't catch every detail in a movie the first time you watch it. If all three of my guesses are correct, it would seem the book has an unfair advantage over the film. If you haven't studied the film and picked it apart like you've done with the book, how can you say you can't get as much from it as the book. I'm not suggesting you should go back and watch it, I wouldn't suggest that. I'm just saying that watching it one time (especially if you're a huge book fan and only paying attention to what differs from the book) is much like looking for a lost item, glancing around in every room and then saying you can't find said item anywhere in the entire house. It may be there, in some obvious place, but you aren't always gonna find it at first glance.

glumPuddle also wrote:
I don’t see how you can say that the theme of longing was demoted, but not acknowledge that it was weakened.

First of all, I never said that. I typed it. jk
Secondly, what I mean to say by demoted is that it was no longer a major theme and didn't use as much time as it did in the book. But in watching the movie it conveyed the same thing to me. It held the same power for me. I suppose the best analogy I can come up with at the moment (bear with me, I'm very tired ) is this:

I used to carry around my CD case all the time. It holds all my nice Christian music. The messages are very uplifting. I was carrying about 100 CDs everywhere with me. Then I got my ipod. Now all my CDs fit on it and I can stick it in my purse. Now the form in which the messages come is different. Now it's much smaller and fits nicely with everything else in my purse, but the songs and the messages therein are the same. I hope that makes sense.

Of course for a film adaption, things have to be made compact. You have to convey things in a shorter amount of time than in a book. You can read a book for days and weeks, but not so with a film. They had to convey Reepicheep's longing in a much shorter time than in the book. If they'd have kept it the same as the book while still condensing the rest of the story they may have beat us over the head with it.

glumPuddle wrote:
In my opinion, the tune they picked for the verse was all wrong.

I agree. It was too bouncy. But it didn't bother me much. I was just glad it was in there at all.

I would like to say (hopefullly without offending you, because I do respect you) that I do not think it's fair for you to compare the book and the film as far as how often the longing is mentioned and how much it comes through. I'm going to take a wild guess and say you've read The Voyage of the Dawn Treader many times and noticed pretty much every detail and gotten most everything you can out of the book. Correct? I'm going to take another wild guess and say you've only seen The Voyage of the Dawn Treader once. I'm going to take one final wild guess and assume you are like me, in that you don't catch every detail in a movie the first time you watch it. If all three of my guesses are correct, it would seem the book has an unfair advantage over the film.

- The first two guesses are incorrect. Every time I read VDT, something new jumps out at me. I would never suggest I have gotten anywhere near all I can get out of these books. They are far too nuanced and multi-layered.
- I have also seen the film twice (2D and 3D) and may go back for a third viewing.
- The third guess is of course probably correct, even for later viewings...but what details do you think I am missing that are relevant to this issue? What should I look for on my next viewing? (1)

I am essentially comparing my first viewing of VDT to my first reading of VDT. The first time I read VDT, I was very moved by Reepicheep’s whole arc. It was a powerful moment when he finally reached his heart’s desire. The film, by itself, did not capture that at all.

You compared the book to the film and said that they held the same power for you in this area. I am now responding to that statement.

The only explanation I can think of is that you only felt that power because you had read the book. I think if you had gone into the film having not read the book, you would not have felt that. That’s what I am saying: Reep’s deep, desperate longing is not there if you view it as a stand-alone film. (2)

Saying that a couple lines ("I only hope I shall earn the right to see it" and "I have wanted to visit your country since I was a mousling") conveyed the same power as those two long book excerpts I quoted where Reep said he would swim all the way if necessary, and gladly die just for one glimpse of the world's end..... that seems like pulling a rabbit out of a hat.

I think I should clarify something, just in case it is not clear: I am trying to look at the film as if the book does not exist. Does it stand alone? Does Reep's longing come through in the film alone? I say no. You can't possibly know his deep desperate longing is there unless you have read the book first.

I guess I'm more of a visual person anyway, so to see the expression of longing on his face and to hear the longing in his voice along with the actual words held as much power as reading the above words on a page.
[…]
…in watching the movie it conveyed the same thing to me.

Are you saying that Reep’s expressions and voice gave you the sense that he would gladly give his life just for one glimpse of the world’s end? Are you saying his expressions and voice gave you the feeling that he would swim all the way and drown if necessary? Because that would be “the same thing” as the book.

The CD analogy doesn’t work because you can still listen to all of your songs from beginning to end. All the lyrics and music is still there. A better analogy would be: If you could only keep 20 seconds from each song. Would they still have the same power? (3)

To make it easier for you to respond (I know it can take a while to sort through quotes and get the HTML right), here is a summary of my questions/statements you may want to respond to:
1. What details did I miss that are relevant to this issue? What should I look for during my next viewing?
2. Pretend the book does not exist. Does the movie, by itself, convey that Reep would gladly give his life for one glimpse of the world's end?
3. The CD analogy does not work because you can still listen to all your songs from beginning to end.

I'd love to say that you're wrong on this, but I do agree Reepicheep's longing wasn't obvious at all in the movie except the very few times we saw him say anything. I disagree on him acting like it was Disney World he wanted to see, but besides that, I have no real way of proving it was there because it really wasn't. The movie makers should've worked hard to put this in, because if you completely cut out anything that had to do with the Dark Island plot, there's not to much else to actually give the story a reason. Do I still love the movie? Yes, but I wish I could say that Reep's longing was perfect.

1. What details did I miss that are relevant to this issue? What should I look for during my next viewing?
2. Pretend the book does not exist. Does the movie, by itself, convey that Reep would gladly give his life for one glimpse of the world's end?
3. The CD analogy does not work because you can still listen to all your songs from beginning to end.

I promise I am not skimming or cheating. I read your whole post, this is just easier to quote

1. I've only seen the movie twice. I don't think I picked up everything in the film. I'm not saying there is anything relevant to the issue that hasn't already been mentioned. I think it's just a matter of perspective. The best I can suggest to you is not telling you what to look for; my best advice to you would be to stop looking. Don't try to think like the book doesn't exist, don't compare it to the book, don't expect this or that. Just watch the movie. Take it for what it is. Don't think so hard on how you should view it or what should be there. Just watch it and process it as it is.

I think us book readers give non-readers less credit than they deserve. Let them see what they see. You watching the movie has nothing to do with them. You view it as you see it. Let them view it as they will. Since we have read the book I'm not sure we can even see it the way they would anymore. I don't think you can go back really and pretend you haven't read the book when you have, or at least I can't.

2 I can't, I'm sorry. I have read the book and I can't really forget what I know. The scene with Reepicheep on the prow looking ahead, toward Aslan's Country, even during the fierce storm suggested he was willing to drown for it, but I've read the book. I don't know what I would see if I hadn't.
For me watching the movie is like looking at a FedEx truck. (Weirdest analogy yet, bear with me.

My pastor pointed out in one service that if you look between the E and the X on the FedEx logo you can see an arrow. He said that once you see it you won't believe you missed it for so long, and then you'll kind of always see it. Which is now true for me. Once I saw it that was it. I can't look at the logo without seeing the arrow, and even if I read the word and try not to think about the arrow I will always know it's there. Now it seems rather obvious and hard to miss.

Maybe it's because I read the book that I see the longing, or maybe I would've seen it anyway, but I tend to find deeper meanings and messages in random things anyway. I'm one of those people who can turn most things into life lessons lol. I can't say what would have been or how deeply the longing comes through if one hasn't read the books. I have read them. Just like, having seen the FedEx arrow, I can't pretend that I haven't. I will always see the arrow because I know it's there. I don't think Reep's longing is as difficult to notice as the arrow, though. I'm just saying I'll see what I see and can't pretend I haven't seen it. If I go in the theatre pretending I haven't read the book and I'll dumb myself down far too much. I would have to blind myself to what I see clearly.

3. You're right, the CD analogy stinks. I told you I was tired.
I have another one. (Hopefully better, but still having to do with music.) There is a song, which I love, by Rachael Lampa. The song is called Free. It's a beautiful, slow, power ballad. On her remix CD, the song is completely different. It went from slow and sweet to a Dance/Rap/Techno sort of thing. The words of the chorus are still the same, but the verses have been cut out and replaced with rap. Some of the original lyrics are scattered througout the rap, but I think most of them are gone, and if they're still there I can't understand them.

For some people this may be a very good thing. There are some who would probably fall asleep on the original and think it boring or far too mellow. But those same people might love a good rap song. If they can understand the words of the rap it may speak volumes to them. Much more so than any old power ballad. For me though, I usually skip that track because it doesn't speak to me like the original. In keeping the chorus of the song the same, the message is conveyed, how powerful it is varies from person to person.

Perhaps, it is the same with our differing views on Reepicheep's longing. The original speaks more volumes to you. However both versions speak the same to me. Maybe we should start calling the movie, The Chronicles of Narnia: The Voyage of the Dawn Treader Remixed.

I feel that perhaps my FedEx analogy was unclear. If so maybe it would be better said this way.

Ever played hide and seek with a small child? Sometimes they think they've found this great hiding spot but they're actually in plain sight. You have to purposely miss what you see right in front of you in order to humor the child. You have to pretend to be a lot less perceptive than you really are. If I tried to look at through anyone's eyes but my own I would end up blinding myself to what I see. I would have to make a conscious effort to block out what I already know and I would make myself a little too blind to the facts. I would have to purposely not see what I see. I would intentionally miss things. I hope I'm making sense.

I'm not saying there is anything relevant to the issue that hasn't already been mentioned. I think it's just a matter of perspective. The best I can suggest to you is not telling you what to look for; my best advice to you would be to stop looking. Don't try to think like the book doesn't exist, don't compare it to the book, don't expect this or that. Just watch the movie. Take it for what it is. Don't think so hard on how you should view it or what should be there. Just watch it and process it as it is.

I talk about this at the beginning of my latest video. You're totally right. Art is supposed to be felt/experienced first. I feel movies first. After they're over, I start thinking about why they made me feel a certain way, and it's usually not too difficult to figure it out, though sometimes it may take several days of reflection. ("oh, it must've been that scene" "the acting really helped" "the music really was great there")

I didn't feel Reep's longing. When I started wondering why, I realized it was because it was not conveyed in the movie.

I think us book readers give non-readers less credit than they deserve. Let them see what they see.

I seriously doubt you could find a non-reader who got the sense that Reep would gladly die just for one glimpse of the world’s end. Not because non-readers are stupid. It’s because the idea is not in the film. If you find someone, please PM me.

I can't, I'm sorry. I have read the book and I can't really forget what I know.

This is consistent with my theory that you only saw it because you had read the book. I think, to a large extent, I am able to view the film apart from the book. (I really don’t think I would like this film even if I read the book. It has so many of my pet peeves, such as super fast pacing, a fakey digital look, over-the-top acting, and heavy-handed cheesy dialogue where characters say what they learned out loud)

There is a song, which I love, by Rachael Lampa. The song is called Free. It's a beautiful, slow, power ballad. On her remix CD, the song is completely different. It went from slow and sweet to a Dance/Rap/Techno sort of thing.

They certainly cut Reep stuff out of VDT. But they didn’t replace it with anything, so I don’t think that quite analogy works either. They just totally chopped it out. The idea that Reep would gladly die for one glimpse of the world’s end is not in the film.

However both versions speak the same to me.

You have answered this before, but if possible, would you be able to give me a simple yes or no answer?…

Are you saying that Reep in the movie “speaks the same” to you as this…
"While I can, I sail east in the Dawn Treader. When she fails me, I paddle east in my coracle. When she sinks, I shall swim east with my four paws. And when I can swim no longer, if I have not reached Aslan’s country, or shot over the edge of the world in some vast cataract, I shall sink with my nose to the sunrise and Peepiceek will be head of the talking mice in Narnia."

...And this?:
"Yes, yes," cried Reepicheep, clapping his paws together. "That's how I've always imagined it - the World like a great round table and the waters of all the oceans endlessly pouring over the edge. The ship will tip up stand on her head - for one moment we shall see over the edge - and then, down, down, the rush, the speed -"
"And what do you think will be waiting for us at the bottom, eh?" said Drinian.
"Aslan's country perhaps," said the Mouse, its eyes shining. "Or perhaps there isn't any bottom. Perhaps it goes down for ever and ever. But whatever it is, won't it be worth anything just to have looked for one moment beyond the edge of the world."

Just a short yes or no will due.

What they added was voice intonation and body language which is a big part of human communication. Some people value such things above the actual words themselves. These are things you can't really get across in a book.

In answer to your question: Yes.

I don't know, while they certainly could have (and should have) put more effort into Reep's longing, I thought that between Simon Pegg's vocal talents and the CGI team's fantastic work with Reepicheep's eyes, that deep, life-long and fundemental search was conveyed perfectly. Everytime Reepicheep spoke about Aslan's country, every time he talked of honor, everytime he looked out ahead of the Dawn Treader I could hear in his voice and see in his eyes that there was more he wasn't saying.

Yes, in my opinion it would have been a better movie had these quiet themes been focused on; but Reepicheep's longing for Aslan's country was at least better handled than say, Caspian's longing for Aslan and the the days of old Narnia in PC.

People keep noticing that he is on the prow, and how he's always the first one on the longboats. In the book, that has to do with the longing for Aslan's country, but in the film it doesn't. It shows that he is adventurous and excited about discovery, but I don't think those who haven't read the book, will see any link with Aslan's country. They just think it's part of his personality. We as fans read into those scenes.

When I came back from the theater with my mother, I gave her some of the quotes Glumpuddle listed, and she said she didn't got that from the movie at all.

Also, even without reep's longing, Aslan's country was still an afterthought. The climax was clearly the dark island. Then, when it disappears, we can see Aslan's country. Edmund literally says: Well, we came this far... then they sail through the sea of lilies, and arrive, within two minutes after the dark Island disappeared. In the book, it takes weeks before they reach it. There is a real buildup towards the actual climax, Aslan's country. The sun gets bigger, their eyesight gets better, the water turns sweet, the purple-like smell is discovered, they see the white sea and discover it are actually lilies, the water isn't deep enough anymore for the Dawn Treader, they take the longboat, reepicheep says goodbye, they meet Aslan. This should have been the climax of the film, an emotional climax, but no, Hollywood had it's way.

Reepicheep's longing was there, it just wasn't emphasized. The scenes in the movie of him at the front of the Dawn Treader in wind and rain show something. He says at the beginning that he only hopes he will one day earn the right to see Aslan's Country, and at the end, we see that plot line tied up when he tells Aslan he would lay down his sword for just one glimpse. The fact that Reepicheep would lay down his sword, and leaves it behind, saying that he will need it no more, says something deep about his longing. I just wish it had been emphasized more than it had been.

I feel as though a lot of his scenes were cut during the final edit... not sure why, and I'm not usually a conspiracy theorist, but I just have a feeling. For instance what about that scene with him looking out from the crow's nest... I don't recall that in the film, although it was in the trailers.

For me, Reep's longing was there a little bit, but not nearly enough. The moment he put his sword down, and said he won't need it any more, I could sense a little something, but not too much.

The best example I can think of for how it was for me would be this -- When you see a person who has a habit of hiding their feelings, and there's something they're really passionate about. You can still tell they're passionate about it somehow, but it's certainly not something that's in your face in the least little bit. It's like, you see it, but you see it through a veil. That's kind of what it was like for me in the VDT movie, when it came to Reep and his longing. I could tell it was something important to him. Though he didn't really do too much to show it, I could still see it somehow, a tiny bit. Something in his tone, expression, look in his eyes.

But yes, it definitely should have been made more clear in the film. After all, Reep was never really the type of mouse to hide his feelings, anyway, lol. (Not that that was necessarily what they were going for in the movie, either, haha)

~Riella