Having him sing his little nursre ryme at the begning of the film was poor timing, because by the end of the film you barely remembered it.

I think what they had was good -- they just needed a WHHOOOOOOLE lot more of it. Take away the misty green puffs of temptation, and give me some more of Reep's longing!

I see a number of "Reep's longing was well done" comments. Could you all be more specific? What moments showed his longing? So far, only two have been mentioned.

1. Reep and Lucy at the prow, where he just says "I only hope I earn the right to see it." (Compare this line to all the lines I quoted in the first post)
2. Reep at the prow during the storm (see comments below).

Two brief moments. Anything else? How would a non-reader get a sense of Reep's intense longing and desire for Aslan's country and the world's end?

What about Reepicheep sitting on the prow of the boat? There were quite a few shots of that in the movie, more-so than I thought. He even sat there throughout that incredibly fierce storm, getting completely drenched, but hanging on. That's gotta say something, right?

All it said was that he's brave. I believe Eustace' voiceover is saying something like "That rat is the only one enjoying himself."

I don't see what that has to do with Aslan's country. He has only mentioned Aslan's country once before. I seriously doubt you could find a non-reader who looked at that shot and said "wow, he must really want to get to Aslan's country." You can only draw that conclusion if you have the movie piggy-back ride on the book. As a stand-alone film, Reep's deep longing is not there.

I was extremely disappointed with Reepicheep. The way I saw it, there was no real "longing". There was the one scene with Lucy, which was well made, but that's pretty much all we hear about it. Then in the end, Reep gulps a bit of the water and says, "sweet! the water is sweet!". When he said that, I thought, "So?" Later it hit me, but the thing is, the break between those two parts is so great that you really do forget what Reep was saying and why it was important.
I really think if they cut out the green mist and Seven Swords plot, they would have time to delve more into these important things. There's just too much going on--too many loose ends that don't get tied up and too many patches.

Well, if you haven't seen this already, this interview is interesting since it talks about the longing:
http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/jjmno ... es-future/
It talks about it in the answer to the first question.

Narnian_Archer, in the scene you just mentioned he's singing the song while he's in the water. I'm not really sure how that was missed. Maybe it goes by too quickly or something. But Reepicheep is in fact singing the rhyme and when he gets to the part about the sweet water he yells "SWEET SWEET THE WATER'S SWEET!!!" So there is a reminder there about the prophecy over Reepicheep.

In the movie Reepicheep seems to be really focused on destiny and I think it was clear that he at least hoped Aslan's Country was his destiny in the film.

glumPuddle, so far we have:

*Reep on the prow facing east, constantly looking ahead.
Even in the storm he did that. I don't think that was to say he's brave. Of course he was the only one enjoying himself. He was coming closer to fulfilling his destiny and his lifelong dream. Eustace wouldn't know or care why Reepicheep was enjoying himself. The fact that he was on the prow, facing east, singing the song of the dryad about finding Aslan's country ought to say something. That should sort of say to the viewer that this is why he's on the prow.

*Lucy and Reepicheep talking about Aslan's Country when he talks about his desire to go there.

*The Sweet Water scene.
He is once again singing the song of the dryad. (Can you tell what's on his mind? ) While he's in the water he tastes it and gets really excited because it's sweet and they're getting closer to Aslan's Country. (I was so happy they kept this part from the book, I love the sweet water moment.)

*The very end where he actually goes to Aslan's Country.
He states very clearly that this is what he's longed for his entire life. He says that he would gladly give up his sword for the pleasure of going.

Anyone who knows anything about Reepicheep knows that this is a HUGE thing for Reepicheep. Anyone who saw PC would know that. He loves a fight. He lives by the sword. It was evident. To have the line about laying down the sword conveys a deep longing to me. It's like laying your entire life, everything you've ever known, down for something. Even if you look at different reviews and overviews of VDT you see that when people refer to Reepicheep he's called a warrior mouse, these are random critics and people who may or may not have read the books. Reepicheep's whole identity is in the sword and in being a warrior, especially in the movies. Anyone would get that. Yet he is laying down the thing that has defined him all his life for something he feels is even greater. This, my friend, is much deeper than a kid wanting to go to Disneyland. I think this comes through in the movie. If nowhere else, the longing is summed up in the line about the sword and the actual laying down of the sword, where he happily lays it down and says "I won't be needing this anymore."

I think it was properly conveyed even without a ton of screen time. There are some things you can convey without spending a terribly long time on it. Perhaps I only feel it was done justice because it wasn't the driving theme to me. It wasn't the main idea for me. As I said earlier there are many main themes, main ideas, in the book VDT and not all of those could be main ideas in the movie.

p.s. I really don't think it does any good to ask the people here if Reep's longing would have come through to someone who hasn't read the books as most of us have already read them. We know what to look for and "we can never know what would've been" if we hadn't read the books. You would do better to ask someone who has seen the movie but never read the book

Reep mentions Aslan's country a grand total of 1 time.

*Reep on the prow facing east, constantly looking ahead.
Even in the storm he did that. I don't think that was to say he's brave. Of course he was the only one enjoying himself. He was coming closer to fulfilling his destiny and his lifelong dream. Eustace wouldn't know or care why Reepicheep was enjoying himself. The fact that he was on the prow, facing east, singing the song of the dryad about finding Aslan's country ought to say something. That should sort of say to the viewer that this is why he's on the prow.

I still say you'd be hard pressed to find a non-reader who got that sense from that shot. I think the only way to interpret the shot that way is if you already know (from the book) how much Reep wants to make it to Aslan's country. His deep longing is not conveyed in the film alone.

*The Sweet Water scene.
He is once again singing the song of the dryad. (Can you tell what's on his mind? ) While he's in the water he tastes it and gets really excited because it's sweet and they're getting closer to Aslan's Country. (I was so happy they kept this part from the book, I love the sweet water moment.)

I would hardly say they included that scene in the book. The scene in the book lasts a few pages. It's a really extended, dramatic moment where Reep explains the water is sweet. There is a pause as the crew takes all this in. Then they haul a bucket up and pass it around, taking sips. Caspian says, "I don't know if it won't kill me, but it's the death I would have chosen." Lucy says that it is so strong, she doesn't think they will need food anymore. Reep explains it is drinkable light, and that they must be very near the world's end.
...All that was translated into about 5 seconds of Reep saying "whoa it's sweet" and the others giggling. It took you longer to read this paragraph than watch that scene.

Do you think a non-reader would even catch the line about the sweet waves at the beginning? And even if they did, would they remember it when the sweet water was actually discovered? In fact, would a non-reader catch any of the song at all? It is not treated like it's important. It's an afterthought. That's something only a fan who is paying close attention would catch.

Either way, the discovery of the sweet water is not treated as if it's important. Reep basically says "whoa, it's sweet" and then we cut to the next scene. The other characters don't even seem to hear Reep. They just kind of chuckle.

*The very end where he actually goes to Aslan's Country.
He states very clearly that this is what he's longed for his entire life.

When does Reep say he has longed for AC his entire life? I've only seen the movie once.

According to Movie-Aslan, the reason Reep gets to go to his country is that "my country was made for noble hearts." Edmund then says that Reep "deserves" to go. The only time Reep mentioned Aslan's country was when he said "I only hope I will earn the right to see it." So the sense we get from the movie is that Reep went to Aslan's country because he had done something to earn it. It is never made clear what he did to earn it.

In the book, it is never even questioned: Of course Reep is the one who should go. At Ramandu's Island, he calls going to AC his "heart's desire." In the movie, the characters don't decide who should go to AC until they get there.

He says that he would gladly give up his sword for the pleasure of going.

I would think a non-reader would be puzzled by that. Why would Reep give up something so important to him? Why is Aslan's country such a big deal? It's very clear in the book because of so many powerful lines (quoted in the first post). Also, the scene in the book is more of a "moment." In the movie, it's a throwaway (no pun intended) line.

Well, if you haven't seen this already, this interview is interesting since it talks about the longing:
http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/jjmno ... es-future/
It talks about it in the answer to the first question.

I think Flaherty is a great guy who understands the heart of the books, but he did not direct the film. The sense of longing was not conveyed in the film. If the filmmakers tried to convey it, then they failed.

MF: "Reepicheep is the very embodiment of this longing. At the beginning of the film, we hear Reep reciting his lullaby."

Which lasts all of five seconds, and we barley hear it. It is not treated like it's important. Would a non-reader catch the lyrics?

MF: "He then talks to Lucy about his hope and desire to make it to Aslan’s country."

What Reep says is "I only hope I shall earn the right to see it." It's just a cool place to go. Like Disney World. You don't get the sense that he has had a deep, desperate, unbearable desire his entire life.

MF: "When he finally arrives there at the end, the scenery is breathtaking. Reep delivers an incredibly moving speech to Aslan about his longing and desire for his country."

I agree the scenery was pretty awesome, but where was this "speech"? And what made it "incredibly moving"?

He says something like he's wanted to go ever since he was a little mouse. As I said, I can't really say what I would've seen if I hadn't read the books because I have. But I think a person who hasn't read the books would gather that this is Reep's desire. I think the only reason it feels absent to some of us is because we HAVE read the books and we know that it was a lot bigger in the books. It feels small because we've seen it so much more vividly. But it is certainly there.

^ I know people who have said "I have wanted to go to Disney World since I was little." Reep's desire for Aslan's country is on par with that.

His desire is there. That is indisputable. He says "I only hope I shall one day earn the right to see it." But that is all. It's just a place he'd like to go. You never get the sense that he has spent his entire life with an unbearable need/desire/longing to make it to the world's end.

Not the same thing. That much was clear in the movie. Reepicheep lays down his sword for Aslan's country. Anyone, even if they hadn't read the book, could see the significance in that. As I said, the sword, the warrior, this is what Reepicheep has always known and always been. It's his identity. He gives that up for Aslan's Country. This is shown in the film. It isn't taken lightly. It's a desire that has been with him all through life and then he lays down his life to go. That is clear in the movie.

That is not the same as a lifelong dream to go to Disney World. In going to Disney World there isn't a sacrifice. In going to Disney World you don't abandon everything you've ever known. You don't lay down your identity for the sake of something greater. You can always come back to the thing you've always known. It was clear in the movie that Reepicheep was laying down the thing that meant the most to him and he was never coming back. He'd left his sword, never to need it again. It was deeper than Disney World and anyone could see that.

Just because someone hasn't read the book doesn't mean they're stupid. They don't need the book to spell it out for them I wouldn't think. I think the longing is evident and deep. It's not as deep as it was in the book. But it certainly isn't shallow. Have a little faith in your fellow man. He isn't so dence he can't see it at all.

I don't know if anyone mentioned it yet, but as the boat travels through the sea of lilies Reepicheep is the one who is continually staring off toward Aslan's country. And he's the one that says "we've arrived!"

Reepicheep in the movie reminded me a lot of Paul in the Bible. I can almost see Reepicheep saying "I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith." It was clear in the film that while he had a very fulfilling life, and he had enjoyed every minute, he was ready to lay it all aside for Aslan's country.

Perhaps the theme wasn't as clear in the book, but I don't feel it was completely neglected. The director just chose to focus on a different theme. (Which was fine with me since I never considered that THE major theme until glumpuddle started talking like it was the only theme in the book).

Do I think focusing on this theme would have made a better movie? Perhaps. But really if you took all the lines in the book about longing for Aslan's country or "a true home", I think you would only fill a few pages which would translate into about 5 minutes of screen time.

It's a desire that has been with him all through life and then he lays down his life to go. That is clear in the movie.

"Clear." Where is it made clear that he has wanted this his whole life? Please be specific.

If the answer is "at the world's end," that's weak. They should have established it much earlier than that. It would have given his arrival much more of an emotional impact.

The same with Caspian. They introduced the conflict of wanting to see his father in Aslan's country seconds before he made the decision not to go. He even said what he learned out loud (because it doesn't come through in the story at all). So there was no emotional impact. His arc lasted about 30 seconds.

That is not the same as a lifelong dream to go to Disney World. In going to Disney World there isn't a sacrifice.

That's what confused me. Why would Reep sacrifice everything to go to a place that was just a cool place to go? I would not sacrifice everything to go to Disney World. I found Reep's choice totally unbelievable.

I didn't feel Reep's deep, desperate, unbearable, longing throughout the film, so I was totally baffled when he sacrificed everything to go to Aslan's country.

Because Aslan's Country is not just "a cool place." It's so much more than that. It's something worth sacrificing everything for. If you get who Aslan is then you understand that. I think most people would get that it's not just some cool place.

If the fact that he said he'd wanted to go his whole life wasn't enough, there was also the fact that he was talking about going with Lucy, in the scene which has already been mentioned. He was singing the song that had stuck with him ever since he was small. That implies the dream has been there for a while.

As for Caspian's character arc, people keep saying it was underdeveloped, but I don't see a huge issue with it. It wasn't just for that one moment at the end.

If you recall, there was a scene by the fire, where Caspian and Edmund are talking and looking up at the stars. Caspian says something along the lines of "Ever since I was a boy I've wondered what it would be like sailing to the end of the world... finding my father there." And Edmund says, "Maybe you will." That's also where Reepicheep and Eustace have their talk about destiny and such.

There was also the Dark Island scene, where Caspian's father called him a disappointment and said he only acted like a king.

There was the scene at Goldwater where Edmund called him spineless.

There were other places where it kind of hinted at underlying father/insecurity issues, but it was more the way Ben delivered the lines then what was actually said, so kudos to Ben on that.

Most of Caspian's issue was insecurity due to lack of a positive male figure in his life. I think most people would be able to pick that up. It was subtle but there were hints of insecurity/ father issues sprinckled throughout the movie.

It's amazing what you can catch in a movie when you actually watch it instead of looking for what differs from the book

Caspian's insecurity/ father issues were there in PC so all that was needed in VDT were a few lines here and there to let you know, ok Caspian still has some left over issues. They weren't going to go into it too much otherwise you have the king of Narnia constantly going "I want my daddy! I want my daddy! I want my daddy!" No one wants to see that. It made sense for Caspian to have some problems and left over issues but have them mostly under control or at least hidden, being the king and all.

I really hope I didn't come off as harsh or anything. Just pointing out what I saw.

Reep just saying it at the end is a good example of a characterization problem I mentioned in my review: We don't see or feel character arcs or relationships, we are simply told about them. This is why all the characters have to say what they learned out loud. Otherwise, it would not come through in the story at all.

Think about Peter in LWW. He never had to say "I am starting to step up and take a leadership role in this family." That just comes through in the story.
Lucy in VDT: Aslan has to say some cheesy, stock bumper sticker line about being yourself.
Caspian: He has to say exactly what he learned out loud at the world's end. Something about "my father wouldn't want me to leave."
Eustace: The reason they need that dialogue scene where he explains that he could not undragon himself, and that the undragoning hurt, is that those ideas did not come through in the story at all.

Characters saying what they learned out loud is usually a dead giveaway that the screenwriters don't have confidence that their arcs will come through in the story itself.

Because Aslan's Country is not just "a cool place." It's so much more than that. It's something worth sacrificing everything for. If you get who Aslan is then you understand that. I think most people would get that it's not just some cool place.

That's the problem, I did not get that sense in the movie. When Reep says "I only hope I shall one day earn the right to see it," that comes across to me as "It would be cool to go there."

You bring up a good point: It's about understanding who Aslan is. The first two films have had a tendency to view the kids as the true heroes more than Aslan. They continued this in VDT, where Eustace gets the credit for destroying "Dark Island" instead of Aslan.

But even if Aslan had been developed better in the first two films, the idea of longing is more of an easter egg for fans than a theme in the film. It shows up in a couple little moments, and that's it.

I would say Reep's deep, desperate longing was not there at all. But I think you have to at least concede it was was significantly weakened from the book. Think about the lines I quoted in the first post. Reep doesn't say anything that comes anywhere close to that.

glumpuddle im having a difficult time understanding your stand on the movie. I think if Reepicheep mentioned any more longings to be at "Aslans Country" it would be close to crossing the line of 'beating a plot point on your head' which is what you don't seem to agree with. Yet, in your opinion, Reeps longing is more subtle, which is what you felt that the producers should have done more (subtlety).

I guess it all comes down to personal interpretation of the book, which we are all entitled to. I'm sorry you hated the movie. But I don't think its worth disowning the franchise. Chances are, if LWW and PC were fine (in your opinion) we may still see more 'good' adaptations.