Very interesting. Thanks for sharing glumPuddle.

A few thoughts:

- I find it very ironic, almost amusing, that Peter Kreeft said his son couldn't sit through the movie. The movie seemed to be made for short-attention spans and it failed to even achieve that.

- I don't think better visuals for Aslan's Country were needed but the audience needed to know what Aslan's Country is. The Other Side, the fullfillment of unfullfillable longing, the rainbow's end etc. The longing for this Other Place is nearly universal.

-I've only seen the movie once so I can't really say a lot but I remember thinking "Oh good, Eustace isn't just a brat, he's a modern enlightened brat." Kreeft suggests that wasn't the case but I remember being more than satisfied with Eustace up until the undragoning.

-I like how he said the best art breaks your heart. I would agree with that. Even innocent art like much of Narnia or Owl City makes you a little sad because you know the world isn't innocent like that.

It made me want to read the book again.

WOW, gP, thanks so much for linking this lecture. I'm going to have to listen to it several times AND take notes...there was too much to absorb from one hearing. I liked his comment about the stories being 'of the world but not in the world' but that the movie was too much 'in the world'. I also agree that the movie lacked an AHHHHHHH moment; that there's no time in the movie when you actually catch your breath. One question that I was left with is why a film maker would not seek the advice and insight of someone like Dr. Kreeft when making movies based on books like CoN? Dawn Treader could have been so fabulous if only a few of Dr. Kreeft's views had been incorporated. If I remember correctly, Dr. Kreeft gave the movie a grade of 'B'. I can only say that I wish I had had him as a college professor; his generous grading scale would have improved my overall GPA

He is mistaken of course when he says that DragonEustace defeats the serpent. But his main point still stands: Using the dragon for so many things watered down Eustace' sense of hopelessness.

I have been finding it difficult to put into words the extent to which the filmmakers dumbed the story down. Kreeft did a fine job of scratching the surface. I like how he says the movie continually "lowers itself."

His thoughts on the longing and excitement for Aslan's country are dead on. This sense of longing, which is so crucial to the series (and VDT especially) was little more than an easter egg in the movie.

First, thank you very much for the link. It was a very interesting watch.

Even as a supporter of the third movie, I can't deny that the movie was far from perfection. Especially after hearing some of the things Kreeft mentioned, I was somewhat disappointed with so many things having been omitted and/or changed. However, I do wish he would have watched the movie at least once more in order to analyze it just a bit more. Here are some of the things I wrote down as I watched it.

Kreeft describes that dragon Eustace in the book is useless and that he is helpful in the movie. If I do remember correctly, dragon Eustace in the book does help with some of the reparations of the ship in order to make himself somewhat more useful. However, he's mostly useless. The movie, however, is the other way around. While dragon Eustace is mainly helpful to the crew, he also has a feeling of being useless. Not as effective as in the book, but at least the feeling is there.

Kreeft mentions that the filmmakers were preventing children from seeing scary images, but that it wasn't something that should be hidden from them. I, having grown up with the original versions of fairy-tales (as opposed to the Disney-fied versions) can agree with him that it's not necessarily a bad thing to show children the "real world". However, we live in a time where more and more restrictions are being put on things that are considered "appropriate". In this case, I don't think that the filmmakers had as much freedom as they needed. Still, I think Kreeft has a valid point.

This brings me to my next point. The undragoning. There have been so many discussions on the undragoning already, so I'll try to keep this brief. From the very beginning, a lot of people already speculated that the undragoning was going to be different on-screen than it was in the book in order to avoid some, most-likely scary imagery. What we got was a creative and effective substitution that just needed more screen-time (and perhaps dialogue, but I think the absence of it makes the scene special too) in order to not rush it by so quickly. Every time I watch the undragoning, I'm a little saddened that it's over so quickly, so I just rewind, and rewind, and rewind, etc. It shouldn't have to be like that.

The sense of awe for Aslan is very hard to accomplish on-screen as it is in the book. Harry-Gregson Williams did a great job in LWW with giving Aslan a very majestic theme that plays both during his very first introduction, and during his introduction after his resurrection (and in PC when Lucy finds Aslan in the woods before he awakens the trees). The details that C.S. Lewis added in the books are still present in the movie, but since it's not verbally explained, it's not as clear as the book. The soft footsteps of the lion-paws of Aslan, for example. They are most definitely there when Aslan walks up to Dragon Eustace on the sandbank. They're just, well... not very noticable. And as Kreeft (and many Narniawebbers) said, Aslan's Country definitely needed more build-up.

I could go on for a bit, but it's late, and I'll start rambling (if I haven't already). Once again, thanks for the link

If I do remember correctly, dragon Eustace in the book does help with some of the reparations of the ship in order to make himself somewhat more useful.

I think what he is getting at is that in the book, Eustace becoming a dragon is a handicap (he is stranded on the island because of it). In the movie, it's superpower. Exactly the opposite.

A dragon always seemed like appropriate image of Eutace' inner self to me. Greedy and prideful. It reminds me of Aslan's line from MN: "All get what they want but they do not always like it." In fact, initially Eustace is happy to be a dragon because he realizes all the power he has. Then his isolation sinks in. After becoming a dragon, Eustace looks like on the outside what he really is on the inside. And the only way to be delivered from it was to let go of that pride, lie down, and admit he can't help himself. Only Aslan can. His dragon skin (a picture of his inside) was a prison and a handicap he desperately needed to be be delivered from.

For this reason, making his dragon state into a superpower felt totally wrong to me. Misses the point entirely. Like many things in the film, it felt exactly the opposite of the book. Going into the first viewing, obviously there some key areas I was concerned about, but I never could have predicted the movie would be so consistently ant-Lewis. Totally caught me off guard.

One could slice and dice it and put it under a microscope and say "well, technically the dragon helps out in the book, so there's nothing wrong with him helping out in the movie." But at the end of the day, the movie just doesn't show the utter despair Eustace feels in the book. This significantly waters down the power of both the dragoning and the undragoning.

Very interesting link. I appreciated listening to it.
In regards to Eustace's transformation (I am definitely not a fan of how they did it in the film but this is a way of looking at it, a sort of counter argument to my opinion), he did improve in the sense that he learned to help others. He seems happy to help pull the ship, while he never would have helped and done actual work beforehand. So it could be argued that Eustace did improve. The difference between that and the book is that Eustace not only improves, but he changes. He becomes the opposite of his character before. Every aspect of his character changes, not only one selfish and lazy characteristic. The way it was presented in the film was not able to portray that and unrealistically shows the dragon as a total help to all of them and no one ever seems to think that it could be a problem at all. Eustace never shows any remorse about even being dragon, except he may have made a few comments while going through the Lily Lake/Silver Sea, I can't really remember.
I definitely agree with his comments about the Dark Island and how false it is to reason that we can get rid of the evil in us and become pure. That's why I opposed the mist. If it wasn't for the mist, would the characters be perfect? Of course not!They couldn't to realistic standards, I don't know what they would do in the film for temptations if it wasn't for the mist. But even Lucy in PC doubts Aslan and goes with the crowd. She has a fault and she owns up to it. Even when she goes to Aslan, he still chides her for not trusting him. Yet the film shifts the blame from a person's faults to an external idea, stating that people can be innocent even while doing something wrong. It's almost like the phrase, "The devil made me do it", but in this case it's "The green mist made me do it".

You're both absolutely right. Eustace transformation wasn't as effective in the movie as it was in the book when we look at in more depth.

I'd like to point out that the dragon was a not helpful throughout the entire movie though. Caspian at first doesn't know what to do with Eustace on Goldwater Island and he states that they'll spend the night on the beach and work out what to do [with Eustace]. When the blue star is spotted the next morning, the crew decides to follow it and Eustace flies along, hoping for the best (ie. hopefully being able to make it to Ramandu's Island without getting tired). When the ship hardly moves, the crew threatens to "eat that dragon!", because it's no use to them (even Drinian agrees).

At Dark Island, it's not like Eustace has become over-confident with himself because of his "superpowers". Eustace knows that because he is too large for the ship, he has to face the Dark Island on his own and not with the rest of the crew. In the end, Reepicheep is the one to pep-talk him into entering the Island (in which he doesn't even stay very long).

In the end, I just want to say that the main idea is preserved in the movie: Eustace becomes a better person after having been a dragon. Whether or not Eustace helped the crew out with his newly acquired "powers", the audience clearly understands that Eustace became a better person because of the things he learned in dragon-form.

In the end, I just want to say that the main idea is preserved in the movie: Eustace becomes a better person after having been a dragon.

My question: Why would becoming a dragon make him a better person?

In the book, it's because being a dragon ultimately makes him a nuisance. A problem for the crew to solve: What are they going to do with the dragon since he can't fly all the way, and they can't feed him anyway? Eustace is forced to confront things about himself he has been ignoring for so long. The need to be undragoned is also urgent: If he isn't undragoned soon, the crew will be forced to leave him behind.

In the movie, the nuisance of being a dragon is almost totally gone. If anything, I think Eustace would become even more prideful and irritable as a result. The urgency was also totally gone. Actually, in the movie, if Eustace had not become a dragon, the final sword would never have reached the table. Eustace being dragoned was actually a good thing.

My answer: Because the people and creatures he initially hated and made fun of cared about him and helped him.

Reepicheep
Eustace continually refers to Reepicheep as a "talking rat". Eustace doesn't like him, and he doesn't want to be near him. When Eustace turns into a dragon, at first he doesn't accept Reepicheep's friendship, but eventually he does (at the campfire). Eustace learns that disrespecting Reepicheep earlier (the orange-incident) was wrong, as Reepicheep was only trying to do the right thing.

The Pevensies
Obviously Eustace didn't like his cousins very much. It was Lucy that got rid of the armband that caused Eustace pain, and Lucy was also the one to show so much concern for Eustace when he fought the sea serpent. Edmund compliments Eustace for his idea of pulling the boat when there's no wind.

Aslan
Eustace didn't like Aslan and also made fun of him (Goldwater Island: "Lay the seven steak knives at the table of a talking lion. Ninnies."). Eventually it was that very "talking lion" that helped him out of his burden, allowing him to be with his (now) friends again and carry on with his normal life.

I know it's different than the book, but it works.

Wow, I really like this. I'm listening to it right now. I liked how he said that his 5-year-old grandson couldn't sit still. So much material! Thanks for this link!

8Silversky, it seems that you are suggesting that what Eustace learns is that you should be nice to people who are nice to you. I don't think this is Lewis's message. As Dr. Kreeft suggests, by becoming a dragon, Eustace was relegated to his own personal Hell. He couldn't communicate...he was utterly alone in his own world of one, a world totally lacking in warmth, light, love. The movie suggests that Eustace's good deeds helped him to undragon. Even though he tells the others he couldn't do it by himself, there is still a subtle, visual implication. That's not the case in the book. As glumPuddle said, becoming a dragon only makes him a nuisance. He wasn't made a dragon in order to be the tool used to save the Dawn Treader crew and yet, in the movie, that's what happens. For me, movie dragonEustace is poor adaptation and even worse theology.

No, Lewis' message was indeed not that you should be nice to people who are nice to you. What I got out of Lewis' message in the book (and movie) is that even though you may have been a terrible brat, there's always a way to turn your life around. It's just that the way Eustace realizes this is different in the movie than it is in the book. In the movie, Eustace realized that by the way people showed compassion towards him and how he wasn't unloved, even though he was a burden to others.

He wasn't made a dragon in order to be the tool used to save the Dawn Treader crew and yet, in the movie, that's what happens.

Dragon Eustace never saves the Dawn Treader from anything. He just assists them (and eventually flees) with tasks that would otherwise have been a great deal more complicated. It's because of Aslan that (boy) Eustace was able to help the Dawn Treader in defeating the Dark Island, which would not have happened otherwise.

This is getting a bit off-topic, so I'll say once more that I do agree with the things that Peter Kreeft has to say about the movie. It's sad that the movie didn't get everything right, but certain things were done well in a different way than the book describes it.

I don't think we're off-topic, I think we're actually on-target with one of Dr. Kreeft's main points--that the movie was too much 'of the world.' The dragoning/undragoning of Eustace is so important and the movie got it terribly wrong. For me, the dragoning is a direct parallel to Jesus' story of those who are like a cup that has been washed clean and shiny on the outside but the inside is still filthy and corrupt. That's why Eustace had to be dragoned--he thought he was clean and shiny but until he was shown how corrupt and ugly he actually was, there was no hope for him. So, as a dragon, all of his vile, filthy, ugly self was exposed and, as a dragon, he was totally miserable--as he should be. He felt alienated, alone and despairing. Well done, Movie!

BUT, the minute they showed dragon Eustace being helpful and doing good, they went completely off the rail. To suggest that dragon Eustace is already on his road to recovery is like saying Hitler was becoming a good guy because he made the trains run on time! No, Hitler was a bad guy who just happened to do something for selfish reasons that was of benefit to others. That's the same with dragon Eustace but the movie intimates that Eustace, in his own power, is already beginnign to re-create himself into a 'good guy.' Poorly done, Movie! We should never have been shown dragon Eustace doing any selfless, good deed because the result is/was that Aslan then becomes, not the bestower of Grace through which Eustace is redeemed into a new person, but simply the final nudge that Eustace needs to complete the transformation that he, Eusatce, began on his own. And for Eustace to say that he thought he was a better dragon than he was a boy...NOOOOOO!! He and the dragon were one--the dragon was a reflection of who and what Eustace was BEFORE Aslan's gracious intervention. Poorly done, Movie, poorly done.

Hollywood took a story with strong Christian underpinnings and produced a movie that screamed Humanism. Did they have the right to do that? Yes. Were there recognizable components from the original? Yes. Does that make the movie an adaptation respectful of the author's intent? No.

Let's take a look at this passage from chapter 7 of the book:

"And one day, flying slowly and wearily but in great triumph, he bore back to camp a great tall pine tree which he had torn up by the roots in a distant valley and which could be made into a capital mast. And in the evening if it turned chilly, as it sometimes did after the heavy rains, he was a comfort to everyone, for the whole party would come and sit with their backs against his hot sides and get well warmed and dried; and one puff of his fiery breath would light the most obstinate fire. Sometimes he would take a select party for a fly on his back, so that they could see wheeling below them the green slopes, the rocky heights, the narrow pit-like valleys and far out over the sea to the eastward a spot of darker blue on the blue horizon which might be land.

The pleasure (quite new to him) of being liked and, still more, of liking other people, was what kept Eustace from despair."

Why is it so wrong that Eustace is helping out in the movie, while he is clearly helping out the crew in the book? The passage says that people started liking Eustace, because as a dragon he was no longer selfish. He was a better dragon than he was a boy, and he realized that as he found out he was able to help the people out with the abilities that only he had.

And Eustace, of course, was still very miserable as a dragon. The campfire scene with Reepicheep clearly shows his sadness and despair. Perhaps it would have been better if it occured later in the movie, but the important thing is that it's there.