If you haven't read the news story on the website go do it! Narniafaith.com has spoilers!!! I am not worried about the themes of the books being kept in the film because of how heavily they are marketing it to the Christian audience.
I haven't read all of the spoilers yet, but I plan to when I find time. This thread is here so we can list and discuss any spoilers we find.
This spoiler confirms Gael's identity and Rhinces purpose on the ship.
Narniafaith wrote:
#4How very brave it was for Rhince’s little girl, Gael, to have followed her father onto the ship. Her mother was trafficked by the slave traders, and Rhince has joined the crew in order to find her. Lucy welcomes Gael aboard the ship. Gael bows to her queen, in reverence. I imagine that Gael had witnessed Lucy’s bravery as she was kidnapped, and I can’t help but wonder if Gael was inspired by watching the example of Lucy? I like this thought… it’s biblical. Titus 2:3-4 encourages us older women (and we are all older women, because there is always someone younger than we are!) to train the younger woman. We are to lead by example.
http://narniafaith.com/teach/study-guid ... for-women/
Lucy kept the incantation she tore from the book about beauty. Lying in bed, we see her wrestle with the temptation. She glances at Gael and then covers her head to speak the spell over her life.
After Lucy speaks the spell and she has become Susan, she finds herself in a world without Lucy and where she herself is Susan. There is no Narnia, and she realizes she doesn’t like it. Aslan makes an appearance and asks, ”What have you done, child? You wished yourself away and with it much more.”
Those were some pretty interesting spoilers... apparently Lucy does say the spell, but instead of making Lucy beautiful, it just turns Lucy into Susan. I wonder how that's going to work out; are they going to have a thing kind of like "It's A Wonderful Life"? It says that when Lucy is Susan, there is no Narnia. So where is she? In England? In America flirting with her officer? This piece is causing me a good bit of confusion. Although I really do like the fact that Lucy knows what she's doing is wrong, portraying this by making sure no one is watching. I'm not exactly sure what I think about her actually saying the spell just yet. It might take me a while to get used to the idea.
I saw the movie....and was disappointed
I notice that even the author of the 'Lessons' is sick of the White Witch!
It also seems to indicate that Edmund refuses the White Witch's temptation...which is as it should be! Interestingly, while it talks about the temptations of the others, it doesn't mention Caspian's temptation other than possibly dwelling on what he's lost in the past (his father?)
With God as my leader and my sword as my companion
avatar and sig by me
My overview of VODT: http://lady-lirenel.livejournal.com/151965.html
I think the whole It's a Wonderful Life scenario with the beauty spell is absurd. Waste of screen time. Besides, where did they get the idea that Lucy wants to be Susan? If you read the book, it clearly states that in the pictures of the magician's book that illustrate the beauty spell Susan is shown looking plain and jealous in comparison to Lucy. That's why Lucy wanted to use the spell, not because she wanted to be Miss Universe 1947. Lucy, being the younger daughter, is completely overshadowed by Susan, the beautiful older daughter. Lucy doesn't want to be Susan, she wants to be better than Susan so Susan can be the plainer, less noticed sister for a change. To me the whole thing smacks of an excuse to wedge in an unnecessary Anna & Will cameo.
sweet! I LOVE this! I really can't wait for the movie now! yes!
NW sister - wild rose ~ NW big sis - ramagut
Born in the water
Take quick to the trees
I want all that You are
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EADBC57vKfQ
I love Narniafaith.com! They had a couple of pages up in June so that Church Leaders could download the first trailer, but it has been rather bare for a while. I get Grace Hill Media's e-newsletter so I knew this website was going to be revamped soon, but it was supposed to be up by Oct. 4 and until now the whole site has been offline. I'm glad to see it up and running with so much content!
OK, now to read the spoilers...
Movie Aristotle, AKA Risto
I am ok with the change.
1. It makes Lucy seem a little more human. Being the youngest of five kids, I can really relate to feeling overlooked and less than everyone else. I think I may be able to take something away from her struugle in VDT.
2. I don't think it's a bad idea that they have her turn into Susan and "wish herself away". The more I think about it, the more I like it. They didn't lose the point behind it. In the book, she feels jealous of Susan and wants to be more beautiful than her. In the movie , she feels jealous of Susan and wants to be her. Either way, they convey the message that Lucy is jealous of Susan and feeling overlooked. That's a small change, in my opinion. The thought behind the action is still evident.
By turning her into Susan, it makes you think, what would the world be like without Lucy. If Lucy is still herself then it isn't quite as thought provoking for some. I am glad they emphasized the importance of being who you are because there is no one else like you. I think a lot of people can relate to that.
3. I know it's kind of lame to bring Susan and Peter back just because they can, but there are a lot of William and Anna fans who will be glad to see them. Will and Anna may help VDT sell better than it would without them. I realize many people have issues with them doing things to try to sell VDT, but none of it really bothers me. I want VDT to sell and do excellent at the box office because I want to see SC.
I think the whole It's a Wonderful Life scenario with the beauty spell is absurd.
Agreed. I'm not happy with her saying the spell, because she doesn't in the book. Of course, she was going to, but Aslan stopped her. I suppose they actually let her do it in the movie because they need to show, not tell, like the with the whole White Witch scene in PC. They needed to show Jadis threatening to come back, not just talk about her coming back.
But still, I don't like this change with Lucy. How in the world are they going to fix it?
Great job, Lucy. You've just obliterated all of Narnia.
Movie Aristotle, AKA Risto
I hope this will get some publicity among churches for the movie, which will help to get the rest of the series made.
And as far as Lucy saying the spell I think it will be a lot better than having her talk to herself through the scene like in the BBC version.
I think it's neat that they would make a website with sermons and such about VDT!
I can see why you're all upset about Lucy saying the spell. I'm just confused. So Lucy says it, and Aslan stops it later? Mabye that wasn't necessary, but at least Lucy gets a look at life wouldn't be like without her.
Lucy wanting to be like Susan and not better than Susan doesn't seem like a big problem to me. When there's someone we admire, we usually want to be just like them, instead of when we're jealous of someone, in which we want to be better than. So until we see more of her, I feel satisfied that she at least wants to be like Susan, even if it's not the same as envying someone.
Finally, more news about Gael! From what I read, I think I will most likely love her role, and alreay, I like seeing Lucy and Gael's friendship!
Even if this is small, I'm glad to see again that Edmund really dislikes Eustace, and also has a heated argument with Caspian. The WW getting him to join her side doesn't seem like a problem to me. After all, somewhere it said that we must say "NO!" to old temptations like Edmund.
Dragon Eustace helps save the day? What's that supposed to mean? As long as it means that he was willing to help and it doesn't look like he's earning his salvation, I'm okay with it!
Caspian struggling with his past at Dark Island could be very interesting...
In the end, I feel pretty positive over this stuff. But what I like most about this is the fact that they are willing to make a site full of Narnia's spiritual themes. Great work, guys!
I guess Gael is no longer a Mysterious Little Girl.
It says that when Lucy is Susan, there is no Narnia.
I've been thinking about this, and I think Narnia does still exist. But the Pevensies have not discovered it. If not for Lucy, none of them would have given the wardrobe a second glance. But it basically amounts to the same thing.
If you read the book, it clearly states that in the pictures of the magician's book that illustrate the beauty spell Susan is shown looking plain and jealous in comparison to Lucy. That's why Lucy wanted to use the spell, not because she wanted to be Miss Universe 1947.
Agreed. I also think that a key part of that scene is Lucy saw what would happen if she said the spell. Narnia, Archenland, Calormen and the Lone Islands would all have been at war with each other. But when she sees that she would get more attention than Susan it doesn't matter. There is a difference between wanting to be Susan and wanting to be better than Susan.
I suppose they actually let her do it in the movie because they need to show, not tell, like the with the whole White Witch scene in PC.
I suppose that's one reason for changing it. But they could have showed and not told using the way it is in the book. Lucy sees what would happen if she said the spell. I would think that it would be a very simple manner to show moving pictures in the Magician's Book. It would probably be less epic, but it would still work. Epic is overrated anyhow.
I think what will happen is that Aslan will undo the spell Lucy did. Cause even though she may have changed the lives of everyone else by saying the spell, Aslan is still constant and can undo whatever spell Lucy does.
Cause maybe Aslan wanted Lucy to say the spell so she could learn from the consequences. And didnt Aslan say in the Magician's Nephew "Everybody gets what they want, they do not always like it." That line could be used here. Lucy got what she wanted, to be Susan, and she doesnt like it.
Winter Is Coming
I don't have much time for responses, so I thought I'd post some spoilers -- for everyone to read and discuss.
From: http://narniafaith.com/teach/sermon-out ... emptation/
§ Eustace: Dealing with the loneliness and frustration of the adventure, while wandering alone by himself in the cave, he is lured by wealth: Greed.
§ Lucy: Dealing with the envy of her sister Susan’s beauty, while browsing through the spell book, she is lured by external appearance and the approval of others: Envy.
§ Edmund: Dealing with the role of power with Caspian, while investigating the unknown pool, he is lured by the wealth and power: Pride.
§ Lucy: Motivated by the disgust of herself and envy of her sister, she desires to have beauty beyond what she can imagine—or at least, beyond her sister Susan—as she flips through the book of spells, seeing for herself the potential beauty.
§ Edmund: Motivated by seeing something good and pleasing—a pool that transforms anything in gold—he was attracted to it, and led by his attraction to crave power and wealth.
§ Eustace: We see this in the character of Eustace. After he had fallen victim to his temptation of greed and taking jewelry, he became a dragon. After a while, he began scratching away the scales, scratching away at the sin in his life, and he began to pull off layer by later, but the lion was the only one who could truly peel his scales off. As quoted in the book: “You will have to let me undress you.” After Aslan peels off the scales of the dragon, after he peels off the greed, Eustace says, “It hurt worse than anything I’ve ever felt… and there was I as smooth and soft as a peeled switch.” And throughout the rest of the story, Eustace begins displaying more Christ-like qualities. For example, he was praised for his valour as he fought off the Sea Serpent. Also, at the end, many people noticed a change in his attitude and behavior. He was able to display those qualities because Aslan himself clothed him, as it says in the book, “after a bit the lion took me out and dressed me.” But the only way to defeat temptation was through Aslan. In a similar fashion, our only way to defeat temptation is through Christ.
From: http://narniafaith.com/teach/study-guid ... for-women/
As Edmund complains about his cousin Eustace, Lucy’s attention drifts to a pretty young nurse flirting with her handsome soldier. Without thinking, Lucy begins to mimic the nurse.
Lucy and Edmund receive a disappointing letter from Susan. Edmund makes the statement, “We don’t matter as much.” Lucy gazes in the mirror and asks, “Do you think I look anything like Susan?”
When the Dawn Treader finds land, there are no Narnia flags in sight. Stepping onto shore, they discover a castle. Inside the castle, there is an open ledger, which leads them to know that slave traders are doing business in this castle. Immediately they are attacked – Caspian and Edmund taken captive; Lucy and Eustace taken to be traded.
Coriakin shows the crew a holograph map of Narnia, pointing to Dark Island, where the previous six Lords were sent before them. He gravely warns them that they will be tested. His final encouragement: “Be strong. Don’t fall for temptation. To defeat the darkness out there, you must defeat the darkness inside yourselves.”
Lucy has discovered the Book of Incantations, a green mist forms behind her as she begins to read, “An infallible spell to make you she – the beauty you’ve always wanted to be.” The book becomes a mirror and she sees her sister Susan. Realizing the spell has turned her into Susan, she says, “I’m beautiful.” As she is about to tear the spell from the book, it roars like a great lion.
Since they can’t figure out what to do with Eustace the Dragon, Caspian, Reepicheep, Edmund, Lucy and Gael stay with him on shore. Gael stares at her locket and confesses that she misses her mommy.
As Eustace is turned into a dragon, Reepicheep encourages him that perhaps what’s happened to him is extraordinary and that he could have extraordinary destiny… “something greater than you could have imagined.” He was right! Eustace helps save them all in the end!
Later in the movie, as Lucy joins the others in battle and has put on her armor. She has a conversation with Gael. Gael tells Lucy, “When I grow up, I want to be just like you.” Lucy very wisely replies, “When you grow up…you should be just like you.”
The first words that Lucy read while on Magician’s Island was a spell that makes unseen things seen. As she is said the spell Caspian, Reepicheep and Edmund were in mid-battle with the invisible spirits. They began to laugh as they realized the previously frightening spirits were actually short, fat, strange looking creatures, who were funny looking, not frightening.
As the Dawn Treader is swallowed into the eerie fog, Caspian faces his past. Edmund faces the familiar spirit of the witch again (I’m getting pretty sick of her!) ... Later, Caspian realizes he’s been focused on what was taken from him, rather than what was given to him.
We see Lucy fighting alongside the crew for the freedom of people. She protects Gael as the serpent attacks the ship and when she reaches for Susan’s bow and arrow, Gael encourages her that she can do it.
One of my favorite speeches in the movie was one made by Caspian as they are preparing to head into battle:
No matter what happens here, every soul who stands before me has earned their place on the crew of the Dawn Treader. Together we have traveled far. Together we have faced adversity. Together we can do it again. So now is not the time to fall to fear’s temptations. Be strong. Never give in. Our world, our Narnian lives depend on it. Think of the lost souls we’re here to save. Think of Aslan. Think of Narnia.
In the closing scenes Aslan utters some very important words, “Welcome, children. You have done well.”
From http://narniafaith.com/teach/study-guid ... versation/
The Enticement of Gold: When Prince Caspian, Edmund and Lucy arrive at Goldwater Island, they quickly discover a pool. Anything who makes contact with the water immediately turns to gold. This is very enticing to Edmund who states, “Whoever has access to this pool could be the most powerful person in the world.” Lucy responds, “What in the world are you talking about?” To which Edmond replies, “Lucy, we would be so rich no one could ever tell us what to do.”
Life is filled with temptations. Voyage of the Dawn Treader is filled with such examples as well. One of the most poignant is the encounter that Edmund had with the White Witch. She appealed to him by promising that he could become a king. She concludes by saying, “Be my King . . . Edmund, Give in! Just give in.”
Spiritual Conversion: This is one of the most important themes of this story. Eustace was the young cousin of Edmund and Lucy. He is a spoiled, obnoxious, negative and constantly complaining boy. He did not want to be on the Dawn Treader and criticized everyone and everything. He wanted to go home. After the ship had been in a vicious storm for several days, it finally emerged from the storm and arrived at a mountainous island.
While the crew worked at repairing the ship, Eustace slipped away to explore the island. He came upon a cave. Suddenly a dragon came slowly out of the cave and died. Eustace could not resist the temptation to explore the cave. Much to his surprise and delight, he found a great treasure of gold and other valuables. He fell asleep and then awoke to find that something terrible had happened to him. he had become a dragon. Within this context, Lewis writes, “Sleeping on a dragon’s hoard with greed, dragonish thoughts in his heart, Eustace had become a dragon himself.” This led to a series of adventures which conclude near the end of the film with a major transformation of Eustace spiritually and physically. The nasty, negative, selfish boy becomes a positive, loving, relational, caring, thankful young man. He is soundly converted. He became a new person.
One of the last lines of the film is Aslan encouraging Lucy to “learn to know me by another name.”
Thanks for posting these spoilers, 220. Out of all of them, this one really stood out to me. (You can read the full quotation in 220chrisTian's post.)
After Aslan peels off the scales of the dragon, after he peels off the greed, Eustace says, “It hurt worse than anything I’ve ever felt… and there was I as smooth and soft as a peeled switch.” And throughout the rest of the story, Eustace begins displaying more Christ-like qualities. For example, he was praised for his valour as he fought off the Sea Serpent. Also, at the end, many people noticed a change in his attitude and behavior. He was able to display those qualities because Aslan himself clothed him, as it says in the book, “after a bit the lion took me out and dressed me.” But the only way to defeat temptation was through Aslan. In a similar fashion, our only way to defeat temptation is through Christ.
So... does this mean that Aslan still "unclothes" Dragon Eustace? I was under the impression from the plot according to the storybook that there was a flash of light and that was how Eustace got undragoned (not a big fan of that by the way). Am I the only one confused?
av by dot
Honestly, I'm kinda glad Lucy says the spell and Aslan doesn't stop her. I always felt that was a bit out of place in the book. After all, God (barring a few occasions) doesn't stop us from sinning. He didn't stop Adam and Eve from sinning, he didn't stop David, he didn't stop Peter, he didn't stop Judas. He gave us the choice to sin or not to sin - though we usually choose to sin. So in the movie, I think it's good that Lucy has the choice to say the spell or not.
With God as my leader and my sword as my companion
avatar and sig by me
My overview of VODT: http://lady-lirenel.livejournal.com/151965.html