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7chronicles
(@7chronicles)
NarniaWeb Guru

So in VDT I’m wondering how they are going to manage Aslan shape shifting. During the Dark Island he is an Albatross. At the end of the world he is a lamb. And even in HHB he is a cat. So I’m wondering how should these scenes play out in VDT? Do you think they will include the scenes and do you think they will keep it close to the book. :- :)

The Voyage of the Dawn Treader
Here are some quotes from the book

The Dark Island/ Albatross

Lucy leant her head on the edge of the fighting-top and whispered, “Aslan, Aslan, if ever you loved us at all, send us help now.”

At first it looked like a cross, then it looked like a kite, and at last with a whirring of wings it was right overhead and was an albatross.

But no one except Lucy knew that as it circled the mast it had whispered to her, “Courage, dear heart,” and the voice, she felt sure, was Aslan’s, and with the voice a delicious smell breathed in her face. So all afternoon with great joy they sailed southeast with a fair wind. But nobody noticed when the albatross had disappeared.

The Very End of the World/ Lamb

But between them and the foot of the sky there was something so white on the green grass that even with their eagles’ eyes they could hardly look at it. They came on and saw that it was a Lamb. “Come and have breakfast,” said the Lamb in its sweet milky voice.

“There is a way into my country from all worlds,” said the Lamb; but as he spoke his snowy white flushed into tawny gold and his size changed and he was Aslan himself, towering above them and scattering light from his mane.

Even though I’m talking about VDT here are some quotes from HHB as well

The Horse and His Boy

Shasta Among the Tombs/ Cat

He looked round; and his heart almost burst with relief. What had touched him was only a cat.
The light was too bad now for Shasta to see much of the cat except that it was big and very solemn. It looked as if it might have lived for long, long years among the Tombs, alone. It’s eyes made you think it knew secrets it would not tell.

At the same moment he noticed that the cat had gone from his back, and he wished it hadn’t

He was just about to run for it when suddenly, between him and the desert, a huge animal bounded into view. As the moon was behind it, it looked quite black, and Shasta did not know what it was, except that it had a very big, shaggy head and went on four legs. It did not seem to have noticed Shasta, for it s

Then the great beast turned to examine Shasta.
“It’s a lion, I know it’s a lion,” thought Shasta. “I’m done. I wonder will it hurt much. I wish it was over. I wonder does anything happen to people after they’re dead. O-o-oh! Here it comes!” And he shut his eyes and teeth tight. But instead of teeth and claws he only felt something warm lying down at his feet. And when he opened his eyes he said, “Why, it’s not nearly as big as I thought! It’s only half the size. No it isn’t even quarter the size. I do declare it’s only the cat!! I must have dreamed all that about it’s being as big as a horse.”

Next morning when he woke, the cat was gone, the sun was already up, and the sun hot.

The Many Shapes of Aslan

The Value of myth is that it takes all the things you know and restores to them the rich significance which has been hidden by the veil of familiarity. C.S. Lewis

Topic starter Posted : February 22, 2010 6:16 pm
Glumpuddle
(@gp)
News Poster, Podcast Producer

Of those three, I think the cat in HHB is the most vital. A crucial idea in that story is that Shasta thought he was the most unfortunate person in the world, and that he had the bad luck of meeting multiple lions on his journey... and then he finds out that actually it was Aslan all along, watching out for him. This enabled Shasta to look back at experiences that seemed bad at the time, and realize that they had to happen that way, and it all worked out for the best. Can't tell you how many experiences like that I've had.

As far as the story goes, the important part of the Dark Island episode is that they are saved by Aslan when all hope seems lost. Not necessarily vital that the help come by him transforming into an albatross. However, I like the idea of using an albatross because throughout history, sailors have viewed albatross sightings as a sign of good luck (and its injury or death as a bad omen). I think it fits in very well to the sea-adventure feel of the book. Not essential to the story. Just really really cool, so I'll be really disappointed if they don't do it.

The only function the lamb serves is to say very clearly "in case you haven't been paying attention at all, Aslan is Jesus." It doesn't have an important story point. So I would call that one the least important of the three listed.
The line "there I have another name" is far more important. The story shouldn't end with "you've had your time... bye forever." The book ends with a sense of hope: They will never return to Narnia but they can still be with Aslan in a way. He's in their world too.


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Posted : February 23, 2010 3:01 am
Glenstorm the Great
(@glenstorm-the-great)
NarniaWeb Fanatic

^^I agree. I wouldn't mind if they cut him turning into a lamb but they have to keep the dialouge in that scene.

Posted : February 23, 2010 4:09 am
daughter of the King
(@dot)
Princess Dot Moderator

I'm with glumPuddle, Aslan appearing as a cat is the most important. However, I would hate to see the other ones cut. I can't think of any reason they would......but you never know.........

I like the idea of using an albatross because throughout history, sailors have viewed albatross sightings as a sign of good luck (and its injury or death as a bad omen). I think it fits in very well to the sea-adventure feel of the book.

It's also an allusion to Rime of the Ancient Mariner. As a reader of classic literature, I would love to see the albatross.

The only function the lamb serves is to say very clearly "in case you haven't been paying attention at all, Aslan is Jesus." It doesn't have an important story point. So I would call that one the least important of the three listed.

I don't know, it shows a different aspect of Aslan. It's not necessary to the story, but it's an interesting character moment. They've known Aslan as a not tame lion, and now he appears as a tame lamb. It's not strictly necessary, but I would miss the lamb even more than the albatross.

ahsokasig
Narniaweb sister to Pattertwig's Pal

Posted : February 23, 2010 4:48 am
7chronicles
(@7chronicles)
NarniaWeb Guru

Of those three, I think the cat in HHB is the most vital.

I totally agree that the Cat in HHB is the most important. :)

Can't tell you how many experiences like that I've had.

Ditto glumPuddle. That's the theme in HHB that I love. The scene where Aslan is explaining to Shasta how it was him watching over him the whole time, it's one of my favorite scenes in all the Chronicles. :)

The only function the lamb serves is to say very clearly "in case you haven't been paying attention at all, Aslan is Jesus." It doesn't have an important story point. So I would call that one the least important of the three listed.
The line "there I have another name" is far more important. The story shouldn't end with "you've had your time... bye forever." The book ends with a sense of hope: They will never return to Narnia but they can still be with Aslan in a way. He's in their world too.

Again I agree with you and think as long as they include the dialoged the scene will be great. Although I would still love to see him as a Lamb. ;)

The Value of myth is that it takes all the things you know and restores to them the rich significance which has been hidden by the veil of familiarity. C.S. Lewis

Topic starter Posted : February 23, 2010 5:45 am
Liberty Hoffman
(@liberty-hoffman)
NarniaWeb Master

I think they will have him shape shift! why would they cut those bits? I hope they do have those scenes, ecpecially the part with the albatross! :D


NW sister - wild rose ~ NW big sis - ramagut
Born in the water
Take quick to the trees
I want all that You are

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EADBC57vKfQ

Posted : February 23, 2010 9:17 am
Glenstorm the Great
(@glenstorm-the-great)
NarniaWeb Fanatic

^^maybe only b/c of costs, or they feel it's not necessary. Unlike everyone on here :p

Posted : February 23, 2010 9:37 am
wolfloversk
(@wolfloversk)
The Wandering, Wild & Welcoming Winged Wolf Hospitality Committee

I really hope they keep these scenes, especialy the Lamb and Cat ones. I completely forgot about the albatross til you guys mentioned it, and seeing that its my second favorite bird, they'd better keep that one too ;)

Bet seriously these scenes add so much to the plot, theme, and characterization, it would be a shame to remove them. (Hint to movie peoples :p )

"The mountains are calling and I must go, and I will work on while I can, studying incessantly." -John Muir
"Be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed." -Richard Adams, Watership Down

Posted : February 23, 2010 3:14 pm
Lion's Emblem
(@lions-emblem)
NarniaWeb Guru

I think that it's important to have all the forms of Aslan appear in the films. I think that we will definitely see the albatross in VDT, I can't really see a reason for it to be cut. It seems quite obvious to have a sea bird shown with a seafaring film (or story). I don't think that it would be too hard to include either on the visual level (there's no physical transformation into anything else and another voiceover actor wouldn't be needed).

I personally would like to see the transformation of the lamb into a lion. Yes, we have gotten a taste of Aslan's moods from the previous films, but I would really like to see the two most extreme sides of the spectrum. What's more extreme than the comparison of a lion and a lamb? Personally, I'm a big fan of morphs in animation. So, having Aslan changed from a lamb to a lion could be really visually stunning to see in film form if done right (otherwise it may just end up looking tacky or corny).

The cat in HHB would be quite interesting to see visullay as well. Having the image actually look like a lion in the distance and morphing into a cat as it approaches Shasta. The only way I see this being cut is if the whole scene is cut. Without the cat in the scene, it's just Shasta sort of hanging out with a bunch of tombs, not much to keep the viewer occupied. Again, it's another form of comfort for the characters.


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Posted : February 23, 2010 4:54 pm
Claire-ayes
(@claire-ayes)
NarniaWeb Regular

It never even occurred to me that they would leave this part out. :-o

I think it's pretty memorable, it certainly helps the book stand out from the rest. What I mean is, it's something you think of when you think Dawn Treader.

I agree with Lion's Emblem, I don't see any reason for it to be cut - unless they're hearing the clang of budget alarm bells, but then this is important. Although, I do hear what glumPuddle is saying, it doesn't seem to have a storytelling motivation behind it. Tricky. The dialogue is most important, but the lamb is such a lovely way of showing the audience, coupled with telling them.

I can see why they could leave it out, but I don't think they would.

Posted : February 24, 2010 7:52 am
Aravis Narnia
(@aravis-narnia)
NarniaWeb Nut

They should keep the albatross. It is a reference to the Rime of the Ancient Mariner. It is a powerful symbol.

Lamb, well, it seems more of a hint and clue than anything else. This one I will not get too upset if they cut out.

The cat in HHB should be kept. Still a cat.

Why the concern with the shapeshifting? Is it because of the possible supernatural and thus religious implications? Are they trying to keep the movie from being too religious and thus trying to avoid the wrath of the P.C. police? Or is it simply a matter of its not getting too expensive?

Posted : February 26, 2010 1:10 am
Fire Fairy
(@fire-fairy)
NarniaWeb Junkie

Personally, I think they should keep all of Aslan's forms, so the audience doesn't get stuck with the idea that Aslan is just a lion. He's more than that. And I think it'll help settle things a bit in LB with the whole lion skin and there being wild lions in Narnia. I agree that the cat is probably the most important story element, but I feel that the albatross and the lamb are equally significant, but for different reasons. The part with the albatross is probably my favorite. It is a beautiful scene that inspires hope in the darkest of times. To simply hear Aslan's voice would not be enough. I think having the albatross physically present will show that Aslan cares enough that He's willing to come and be with them in order to provide comfort and direction. And I really think the lamb is significant as well. It shows that things are not always as they seem, and is sort of like a reminder to Edmund and Lucy that while they may not always recognize Him, Aslan is always around, and that they must learn to keep an eye out for Him so that they can recognize Him when He is in another form. Also, I think this scene is parallel to the resurrected Christ meeting His disciples on the shore of Galilee with a fire and fish ready for them to eat. It is there that He tells them His parting message: "Feed my sheep". To take this scene away is like taking that part out of the Bible--it just won't work.

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Posted : February 26, 2010 10:20 am
Liberty Hoffman
(@liberty-hoffman)
NarniaWeb Master

if they lest out the parts with Aslan shapeshifting, then it would mess up the plot.....


NW sister - wild rose ~ NW big sis - ramagut
Born in the water
Take quick to the trees
I want all that You are

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EADBC57vKfQ

Posted : March 13, 2010 9:13 am
A_Narnian_Ship
(@a_narnian_ship)
NarniaWeb Nut

They should definitely keep the "shapeshifting". I love the symbolism in the end of VDT w/ the lamb(Aslan) giving them fish for breakfast, Fire Fairy; I'm sure C.S. Lewis knew exactly what he was doing when he put that in.


I saw the movie....and was disappointed

Posted : March 15, 2010 5:39 am
wild rose
(@wild-rose)
Member Moderator Emeritus

I'd rather they just keep everything by the book, if they took the parts out everything would be different, and not the way it should be. The story would sort of be blemished

always be humble and kind

Posted : March 15, 2010 7:48 am
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