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Should Netflix's Narnia have a Narrator?

fantasia
(@fantasia)
Member Admin

The title is pretty clear, should there be a narrator for this series? If so, which character should it be (if any)? And feel free to toss in any actor/actress suggestions as part of the discussion. 🙂 

Here's an old discussion on the topic.

https://community.narniaweb.com/index.php/community/general-movie-discussion/would-a-narrator-be-a-good-idea-for-future-narnia-movies/

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Topic starter Posted : January 25, 2025 7:55 am
icarus
(@icarus)
NarniaWeb Guru

Looking at a few lists of movies which incorporate narration, voiceover, and inner monologues, and you end up with an incredible list of films, stacked from top-to-bottom with some of the greatest movies of all time, from all decades right up to the present day. For example, 'The Shawshank Redemption' might just be one of the most universally beloved movies ever made, and Morgan Freeman's narration in that is perhaps its most iconic element. Therefore, conceptually, I would see no reason for anyone to overtly dislike the concept of narration as a cinematic device. 

However, I would note that the majority of the movies that do narration well are all films in which the narration is provided by characters within the film - whether in the main body of the narrative, or within a framing device. This is something therefore I would be totally happy with for Narnia - an elder Polly or Digory narrating MN, absolutely. The professor narrating LWW, sure.

However, since we are in the casting section of the forum, my mind was then drawn towards movies which have a dedicated 3rd person narrator... and here I feel like the majority of the movies that are able to pull this device off at all, really have to lean heavily into the highly stylised visuals, and really emphasise the meta-fiction aspects, and those are two things I don't really tend to associate with Narnia all that much.

Of course, one very notable recent movie which did utilise an anonymous third-person narrator was Greta Gerwig's 'Barbie', a film which leans very hard into both stylised visuals and meta-fiction aspects. However, all that said, I still didn't feel that Greta Gerwig actually made particularly good use of Helen Mirren as the narrator, Other than the opening narration (which could have just as easily be delivered by America Ferrera, or Rhea Perlman's character) i think the narrator only interjected into the story twice, one of which was to explain why the Barbies are able to float downwards into their cars, a detail which would have been much cleverer had it not been spelled out for the audience. (i still do wonder if that moment, and the narrator in general, were studio imposed mandates from executives who were struggling to grasp the idea).

Anyway, i guess if i absolutely had to go for a third person narrator, than in my head-cannon that person is always going to be assumed to be CS Lewis, and therefore if Anthony Hopkins has a few years left in him. i'd sign him up for that straight away.

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Posted : January 25, 2025 11:35 am
Courtenay liked
coracle
(@coracle)
NarniaWeb's Auntie Moderator

@icarus I agree that the narrator should be a character in the film (my suggestion in MN is the adult Digory who will be met in LWW). 

Please keep Tony Hopkins OUT of this. His voice is wrong for Lewis. 

There, shining in the sunrise, larger than they had seen him before, shaking his mane (for it had apparently grown again) stood Aslan himself.
"...when a willing victim who had committed no treachery was killed in a traitor's stead, the Table would crack and Death itself would start working backwards."

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Posted : January 25, 2025 12:31 pm
Courtenay
(@courtenay)
NarniaWeb Fanatic Hospitality Committee

I'm not sure where I stand on this question. Having a narrator in films can be excellent if done well (and preferably sparingly), or it can be totally tacky.

For the most part, I'm not sure it's really necessary, except maybe at the beginning and/or end of each film. The usual art of film-making is to tell the story without the need for a narrator, unless it's aimed at very little kids — to find ways of showing visually, or through the characters' dialogue, where we are and in what time period and what is going on, without resorting to a disembodied voice (even that of one of the characters) literally telling the audience in fourth-wall-breaking manner.

And the problem with having one of the characters as the narrator is that, especially if the narration is going to come in at various points throughout the film, it really needs to be someone who is part of the story continuously and is experiencing all these things as they happen. Somebody recently mentioned the BBC Radio adaptations of the Chronicles, which I have on CD, and I must admit I've still only listened to MN and LWW (they are presented in chronological order), because the latter was so badly done that it put me off.

Both of those radio plays are narrated by adult Digory / the Professor, which works pretty well for MN, because of course he's the main character throughout and there are very few scenes that he doesn't witness directly. But having him narrate LWW really does not work, or so I reckon. It would have been OK if he'd just introduced the story and concluded it, but to have him interjecting and commenting and describing things all the way through the four children's adventure, which he was not a part of... And imagining him telling it second-hand from their reminiscences stretches credibility too far as well, because he regularly describes their inward thoughts and feelings, and how could he possibly know all that, unless they spent hours telling him everything in that much detail?? No idea (Lewis-as-narrator does exactly that in the book, of course, but he's writing this story, so logically he has access to all the characters' inner workings in ways that no in-universe narrator possibly could.)

Films (and TV shows) generally don't need narration in the same way that a radio play usually does anyway, so I don't think there's really a call for having a narrator all the way through the next series of Narnia films. As I was saying, maybe at the beginning and end to set the scene and wrap up, or even at occasional points in the story where it works logically for one of the characters to be recounting events that we aren't going to be shown in full.

I'm just remembering that towards the end of the last episode of the BBC TV series of LWW, after the four Kings and Queens are crowned, we hear Mr Tumnus's voice giving a narration of what happened during their reign — beginning "And so the seasons passed, and the years passed..." and relating a shortened version of what Lewis tells us at that point in the book. It cuts to a visual of an older Tumnus sitting and writing as we hear his voice-over, so it's implied he's recording these things in the historical annals as the years go by. That works pretty well too, as it covers the "time passes" element of the story, before we cut to the four adult Pevensies on their quest to find the White Stag (although I'm pretty sure we're not told that's what they're doing).

There are a few places throughout the Chronicles where it probably would be good to have some form of narration to tell us things like that, but again, nearly always at the beginning or the end of the story, not all through it. The only bit I can think of where I'd say we really definitely need a narrator is right at the end of The Last Battle, after Aslan's final words: "The dream is ended; this is the morning..."

At that point — possibly with Aslan shining brighter and brighter until the whole screen is filled with light — I think we really do need a voice-over to read out the iconic last paragraph of the story: "And as He spoke He no longer looked to them like a lion..." Probably it should be shortened a little, but there is really no way you can get the ending of that story across without having an external voice (not one of the characters) narrating it, because, well, all our heroes have just discovered they've (literally) died and gone to heaven, and what they're experiencing now, and forever, is too great and beautiful for us on earth to take in or understand. We have to say goodbye to them here and leave them to become part of that "Great Story" that we can barely begin to imagine. I can't see any way of making that clear without a narrator, and as I said, I don't think it should be one of the characters themselves, as they're beyond our reach now. Hopefully, whoever directs LB — if Netflix's adaptations, or anyone's, ever get that far!! — will find a good way of doing it.

"Now you are a lioness," said Aslan. "And now all Narnia will be renewed."
(Prince Caspian)

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Posted : January 26, 2025 2:50 am
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Narnian78
(@narnian78)
NarniaWeb Guru

I like the idea of having a narrator, although it may not be required for a film since all of the necessary material is shown visually. It can still add a more personal touch as it did in the 1967 series with the Professor narrating the story. While narration is not essential it can add interest to the program and may help to keep the viewers watching.

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Posted : January 26, 2025 3:52 am
icarus
(@icarus)
NarniaWeb Guru
Posted by: @courtenay

I'm not sure where I stand on this question. Having a narrator in films can be excellent if done well (and preferably sparingly), or it can be totally tacky.

It is interesting that you should say that, because whilst that would have been my instant gut reaction as well (that narration is usually tacky, unnecessary, and only reserved for children’s stories) looking at the movies which do utilise narration, the results were the complete opposite – not just the aforementioned Shawshank Redemption (the #1 rated movie of all time on IMDB) but also the likes of Forest Gump (#11), Fight Club (#13), Goodfellas (#17) and countless more that populate the upper echelons of IMDB’s rankings, such as Apocalypse Now, Blade Runner, Stand By Me, A Clockwork Orange, The Usual Suspects, The Big Lebowski, Trainspotting, etc. Therefore, clearly narration is a device that critics and audiences alike seem to really appreciate and enjoy very much.

I think though, that perhaps the reason why a lot of people still seem to conceptually dislike the idea of a narrator (and this touches upon a few of the points you’ve also raised), is similar to why a lot of people struggle to get on board with the concept of Musicals – and that comes down to the concept of diegesis.

In the majority of films, the director will typically not draw too much attention to the non-diegetic elements of the film (i.e. the things that are part of the way the story is being told, and not a part of the actual story). So things like the music, the editing, and the camera movement will usually just blend into the background and go largely unnoticed by the audience. I think in most of the films I've listed above, the narration falls into this category.

Some directors however, such as the likes of Quentin Tarantino, Edgar Wright, Guy Ritchie and Baz Luhrmann, really like to emphasise the non-diegetic elements – they will use big iconic songs as “needle drop” moments, they will use flashy editing cuts and dynamic camera movements which really draw focus to the way the story is being told to you. I think that’s probably one of the reasons why, in those type of movies, the director is as much the star of the show as anyone featured on screen.

But i don't think the majority of the films listed above really fall into that category. Not only is the narrator a character within the movie, but the narration is presented in a way that skews much closer to the diegetic end of the spectrum than the non-diegetic. i.e. the narration and the way the narrator is presented, doesn't pull focus, and blends fairly seamlessly into the way the story is being told to you.

However, I think that as soon as you introduce the idea of an anonymous third person narrator, you place the film firmly towards the non-diegetic end of the spectrum. The very existence of such a narrator calls attention to the artifice of the story telling, and therefore you either have to lean into it with the stylised visuals and meta-narratives (such as the previously discussed Barbie) or it comes across feeling somewhat tacky and "bed-time story"-ish.

When it comes to that type of Narrator then, I’ve really struggled to find many good movies which fit that form – perhaps The Princess Bride? Though to be honest I can’t recall whether the narration in that movie actually extends outside of the framing device. There are probably a few children’s movies (The Jim Carrey version of the Grinch maybe?) but none that truly spring to mind as being exemplary executions of the Narrated format.

Therefore, I guess my ultimate answer to this is that I am fine with the idea of narration and/or a narrator... just as long as it is presented in a manner that integrates fairly seamlessly with the overall diegetic elements of the story.

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Posted : January 26, 2025 4:35 am
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Courtenay
(@courtenay)
NarniaWeb Fanatic Hospitality Committee
Posted by: @icarus

When it comes to that type of Narrator then, I’ve really struggled to find many good movies which fit that form – perhaps The Princess Bride? Though to be honest I can’t recall whether the narration in that movie actually extends outside of the framing device.

It doesn't — the narrator throughout is the grandfather, sometimes in voice-over, sometimes cutting to him and the grandson as they discuss, or debate, the story. ("Is this a kissing book??" Giggle

Anyway, I agree with your last paragraph. I don't mind the idea of a narrator either as long as it "integrates fairly seamlessly with the overall diegetic elements of the story" — that would be one concern with the ending of The Last Battle, which, as I said, I can't see any way to do effectively other than using a narrator who's not one of the characters. That device would have to be introduced at the start of the film, or throughout the series as a whole, since otherwise it would sound bizarre to have this previously unknown voice cut in and tell us the ending. But then you do have the problem of it sounding "bed-time-story-ish", as you said, unless the entire series is done in a way that makes us accept this naturally as part of the whole aesthetic.

Of course there's the fact that throughout the whole series of books, we do have Lewis adopting a very distinctive narrator voice as he regularly addresses the reader directly, as if he's a friendly uncle or granddad telling us this story. (Some readers find that annoying, others enjoy it; I'm in the latter camp.) So there is a precedent for a narrator to be included in this somehow, if only a really good film-maker could find a way of doing it that doesn't feel jarring or hokey... 

"Now you are a lioness," said Aslan. "And now all Narnia will be renewed."
(Prince Caspian)

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Posted : January 26, 2025 7:40 am
fantasia
(@fantasia)
Member Admin

You know, @icarus just mentioned this morning he needs to break free of his Christopher Nolan references. I have the same problem, except I keep referring back to Lord of the Rings. Eyeroll Giggle  

So I was attempting to think of movies that use a narrator that I like, and while there are a number of kid movies where this works okay for me, the only adult movie I could think of was the beginning of Fellowship of the Ring where Galadriel gives the backstory and history of the One Ring. But once that history lesson is done, she doesn't come back as a narrator again (that I can think of, correct me if I'm wrong). 

As a whole though, I REALLY don't care for narrators. Even reading the Chronicles to my kids out loud currently, the narrator interjects comments occasionally and one of my kids is always like "Wait, who's talking now?" Even though I can logically figure out it's a narrator when I'm reading, like my daughter, those interjections also break the flow of the storyline for me as well. I prefer to keep the narrator out. 

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Topic starter Posted : January 26, 2025 12:52 pm
icarus
(@icarus)
NarniaWeb Guru
Posted by: @fantasia 

So I was attempting to think of movies that use a narrator that I like, and while there are a number of kid movies where this works okay for me, the only adult movie I could think of was the beginning of Fellowship of the Ring where Galadriel gives the backstory and history of the One Ring. But once that history lesson is done, she doesn't come back as a narrator again (that I can think of, correct me if I'm wrong). 

She doesn't no. But Frodo does end the third film with a closing narration which I absolutely love:

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Posted : January 26, 2025 1:27 pm
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Col Klink
(@col-klink)
NarniaWeb Junkie

You know, it's funny. Everybody else is trying to think of movies with narrators that worked and I'm having trouble thinking of a movie with narration where it didn't work for me. Giggle It's not that I think the narration in every movie I've seen that had it worked wonderfully but it's hard for me to remember it actively being a problem. The only example I can recall is Maleficent (2014) where I felt they used narration as a crutch. You see, there's this romantic relationship at the beginning, which is vital to the story, but we barely get any scenes of the two lovers together. The narrator just tells us they had this lifelong relationship. I honestly wonder if the movie went way overbudget and they weren't able to shoot everything needed and so had to add the narration at the last minute to tie things together. But FWIW, I didn't consider the movie in general to be well written so it's not like a great film was ruined by a narrator or anything. 

Maybe the reason narration doesn't bug me is the kind of books I grew up reading. The first picture books read to me that weren't tie-ins to movies or TV were by Beatrix Potter and she would often make her authorial presence felt. ("They had a roasted grasshopper with ladybird sauce, which frogs consider a beautiful treat; but I think it must have been nasty!") Same with C. S. Lewis and E. Nesbit. If Fantasia's kids were confused the Narnian narrator, they'd be baffled by J. M. Barrie's narrative presence in Peter Pan, which I love. And since I love books more than movies, having movies mimic books doesn't bug me. 

One of my favorite recent movies is The Best Christmas Pageant Ever and I feel it would only be two thirds as entertaining without voiceover narration. Of course, the narrator in that story is one of the characters so it doesn't disprove Icarus's thesis that third-person narrators don't work in movies, only first-person ones. I loved that the narrator enabled the film to have the first and last lines of spoken dialogue be the same as those in the source material by Barbara Robinson. It'd be great if a Narnia movie could do that too.

For better or worse-for who knows what may unfold from a chrysalis?-hope was left behind.
-The God Beneath the Sea by Leon Garfield & Edward Blishen check out my new blog!

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Posted : January 26, 2025 4:07 pm
icarus
(@icarus)
NarniaWeb Guru
Posted by: @col-klink

You know, it's funny. Everybody else is trying to think of movies with narrators that worked and I'm having trouble thinking of a movie with narration where it didn't work for me. 

I might just be about to test that theory, because I think I recall you not liking the following movie, but for me, one of the most inventive recent uses of narration in film was in Wes Anderson's adaptation of Roald Dahl's "The Wonderful Story of Henry Sugar" (2023) for Netflix.

It's a movie which is basically all narration, but it fits into my special exemption category of "hyper stylised & hyper meta", and boy does it do both in spades..

It opens with Ralph Fiennes playing Roald Dahl, narrating the story of Henry Sugar, and then passes to Benedict Cumberbatch as Henry Sugar himself, now narrating his own story. We  then go to Dev Patel narrating a story about Ben Kingsley that Henry Sugar is reading, and then to Ben Kingsley narrating his story within that story, before we finally go all the way back up to both Sugar and Dahl...it's a wild ride.

I think though the reason I like it so much is that the film just oozes Roald Dahl charm by virtue of using all of his original.text.

By contrast, Wes Anderson's previous Roald Dahl adaptation - Fantastic Mr Fox - frustrates me incredibly  every time I try and watch it because all of the Americanisations set such a completely different tone compared to the way Dahl writes, and that book is one of my all-time favourite, childhood defining, books.

I'm not saying I'd want to go in the Henry Sugar sort of direction for Narnia, but I'd like at least to try and capture that same sort of authorial essence, just in a different manner.

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Posted : January 26, 2025 4:45 pm
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Col Klink
(@col-klink)
NarniaWeb Junkie

@icarus Thanks for the test but I'm sure I haven't seen that movie. (There are some Roald Dahl stories of which I'm a fan, but Henry Sugar isn't really one of them. Not that I hate it or anything. I'm not sure I've actually read it though I know the premise.) A while back I mentioned on the forum that I don't really like either movie adaptation of Roald Dahl's Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, so maybe that's what you're remembering. (FWIW, the more recent one had voiceover narration, and I thought part of it worked really well.) 

Your description of The Wonderful Story of Henry Sugar movie's framing device sounds so interesting (and pertinent to this topic) though that now I kind of want to watch it though, so thank you. 

For better or worse-for who knows what may unfold from a chrysalis?-hope was left behind.
-The God Beneath the Sea by Leon Garfield & Edward Blishen check out my new blog!

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Posted : January 26, 2025 6:42 pm
Pete
 Pete
(@pete)
NarniaWeb Regular

@coracle - I agree about not using Anthony Hopkins voice, as you said, he didn't really sound much like Lewis.  Don't get me wrong, I like the version of the Shadowlands he was in (despite its many flaws), but I think Joss Ackland's voice was a little closer to Lewis's - more natural anyway.  Anyway, I'm sidetracked from the topic. Giggle

If the movies were going to have narrators, an older (Professor) Digory Kirke might work for MN, and it might be interesting to have Lucy as narrator for LWW - after all, she gives a brief narration at the beginning of the animated LWW - I think this concept could be explored more.  However, on the whole, I don't think the movies should be narrated - just throwing out an idea. Grin

*~JESUS is my REASON!~*

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Posted : January 30, 2025 3:50 am
icarus
(@icarus)
NarniaWeb Guru
Posted by: @col-klink

You know, it's funny. Everybody else is trying to think of movies with narrators that worked and I'm having trouble thinking of a movie with narration where it didn't work for me. 

Ill try again with another interesting one - The Great Gatsby (2013).

It's a film I actually quite like on the whole, however the narration for me is mostly redundant; simply serving to state the obvious of what's happening on screen, or worse yet trying to tell the audience how a character was feeling in that moment when it's perfectly clear from the actor's performance what's going on in their minds.

The even worse parts of it though are when the narrator is so insistent on telling us how Jay Gatsby was the kindest and most hopeful person he ever met, even though the events of the film show him to be kind of an awful person. For me, that's when the narrator ceases to be merely redundant and starts becoming incongruous.

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Posted : February 4, 2025 1:43 pm
Col Klink liked
Col Klink
(@col-klink)
NarniaWeb Junkie

@icarus So I haven't seen that movie either because I didn't enjoy reading The Great Gatsby in high school and I'm not a fan of Baz Luhrmann's directorial style. (I did enjoy Strictly Ballroom, but I feel that's despite its Luhrmann-ness more than because of it.) For those very reasons however, I am quite willing to believe you that I'd dislike the narration. Believe me, I'd expect any narration in Luhrmann movie to be redundant and annoying. ROFL  

That being said, I can't help but wonder from your description, if it's supposed to be ironic. I mean, if the narration keeps saying the character is great and his actual actions keep showing otherwise, I'd assume that was the movie's intent.

P.S.

I did see Wes Anderson's collection of Roald Dahl short films and at first, I enjoyed the narrative device. But after a while, I got tired of it, partly because including so much of the original text meant the various narrators had to speak at such rapid-fire pace and couldn't really put any emotion in it. A pity since they were all such charismatic performers. So I guess that's two concessions for me or maybe one and a half. 

This post was modified 1 week ago by Col Klink

For better or worse-for who knows what may unfold from a chrysalis?-hope was left behind.
-The God Beneath the Sea by Leon Garfield & Edward Blishen check out my new blog!

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Posted : February 4, 2025 2:53 pm
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