I do like movies that make you think, but I don't want every movie I watch to keep me up all night. especially a movie based on a children's book.
And by the way could you give me the link to Rilian's video blog? (to the moderator: I didn't mean to double post this, could you delete the previous post instead of this one?)

^ Not sure what you mean by keeping you up all night. Just saying I like movies that give you something to think about, and where you notice more things in repeat viewings.

If we're talking about being faithful to the book, that would mean subtlety. The filmmakers made a big change to the PC story and made the character arcs much less subtle, probably because they were afraid some people might not get it. (Translation: Dumbing it down)

Be careful about using that term "children's book." There are themes and concepts in Narnia that few kids will be able pick up on. It just so happens to be a story that kids can enjoy. I consider them very adult books.

Rilian's vlog: http://www.youtube.com/user/PrinceRilian

I'm not trying to insult the books, I was just pointing out that they are written in a style more for children than adults. Although they do have a lot of mature themes.
Thanks for the link.

"The whole association of fairy tale and fantasy with childhood is local and accidental. I hope everyone has read Tolkien's essay on Fairy Tales. []...In fact, many children do not like this kind of book...and many adults do like it."
-CSL, "On Three Ways of Writing for Children," Essay found in On Stories: And Other Essays On Literature.

But it is obvious that the Chronicles are more aimed at children, they are sold with children's books, they are illustrated and the writing style is much more childish than Lewis' adult books. And they are about children.
I agree that fantasy is not neccessarily children's stories. the LOTR and the Silmarilion are in no way children's books.

I honestly don't see anything wrong with any of the things that Edmund, Caspian, Lucy, ect. do
Edmund, in the book, is a bit like that anyway.....
I love that they thought to have a reason for Lucy wanting to be more beautiful. I mean, if they did it the way the book went, as far as that bit of it goes, then there would be no real reason for Lucy wanting to change to be more beautiful than Susan. they had to explain it to the audience. and I think it makes sense

But it is obvious that the Chronicles are more aimed at children, they are sold with children's books, they are illustrated and the writing style is much more childish than Lewis' adult books. And they are about children.
I agree that fantasy is not neccessarily children's stories. the LOTR and the Silmarilion are in no way children's books.

Quite! But I think the main point is that the Chronicles are not merely children's books.

I think what I disagree with you on is that the movies did a good job of character development. I don't agree that it is always necessary or good to have "extra" character development. Especially in the case of Peter's rotten attitude. It was overdone. A few people who I've talked to (who did not read the books) said that the movie was unbearable because none of the characters were sympathetic. That's the danger with the teen angst angle.

Secondly, as glumPuddle pointed out, the characters aren't wholly perfect in the books either. They have flaws. But he doesn't spend a lot of time on the psychology of it. He doesn't not spend ANY time on it, I think. He does take us into Edmund's head in LWW, and Lucy's in VDT. It does work better for film to develop characters more. You are right about that. But I disagree that Lewis doesn't do any of his own or that they are flat characters.

I do agree that Peter was more of a jerk than neccessary, but I do like the way the movie does do more into the characters then the books.
I think it's just everyone has different ideas of what a movie should be like or cover.

One of my fears is that Eustace will be so annoying that it will drive people away just like Peter's character did in PC.

I never thought of it that way, I hope the transformation will make up for that.

I hadn't thought a lot about what people have brought up on this thread, but it makes sense. As a fanfic writer I like exploring the characters' personalities further, so when I'm hit over the head with the flaws of the characters there's not a lot for me to *think* about. I have a hard time writing PCmovie!Peter because he practically spells out his entire personality. I think one of the reasons Edmund was a favorite character in PC was because we *don't* get shown a lot with him; having barely any lines makes the viewer have to watch and consider his thoughts, how his thoughts are reflected in his actions, and what this says about Edmund as a character.

For example, Edmund's line in PC in response to Caspian saying that the Pevensies weren't what he expected. He simply says "neither are you" and looks askance at the Minotaur. Why is he looking at the Minotaur like that? Is he surprised, uneasy, pleased? We know from LWW that he followed the White Witch and then repudiated that service; was that what he was thinking about when looking at the Minotaur? We aren't told. However, in the same scene Peter's "Well at least *someone* knows how to use a sword, because we'll need all the help we can get *glares pointedly at Caspian*" line is obviously an attempt to show his pride and his...well, this is a clean forum so I can't say that here. There's no mystery, no reason for us to think further about Peter or his personality.

So, basically, I agree that there isn't enough subtly in the portrayal of the characters, particularly in PC and, how it's beginning to look at least, in VODT. But maybe we'll be wrong and things will be more subtle in VODT. We can hope at least.

Well I never found Book!Eustace to be so annoying that I ended up disliking him completely. Two things prevented this I think. Firstly, the comedy of Eustace's personality, his arrogance and ignorance (swinging Reep by the tail, "I'm a pacifist", etc) made him funny for me. As well the power of Aslan transforming him and how he changed also made me like him more.

This brings up the point on how people like flawed characters. Edmund is my favorite character for a number of reasons, most importantly because he went from being bad to good. I like that. People do like flawed characters and Lewis did write them. He just did them, as Glumpuddle mentioned, in a subtle (yet powerful) way.

I don't want to be confused either. I think the mark of a good storyteller is being able to be clear and concise yet subtle and quite. They don't need to scream it for us to understand.

personally, I dont think Peter's jerkness was as exaggerated as we would like to believe. According to several paragraphs, 'tempers did flare' which of course is easy to forget when you are only reading text. It always leaves more of an impression when actually seen in person or on screen. How else can PC's sense of despair be shown on screen than with tense moments?

I think they are referring mainly to where Peter says to Trumpkin "That explains it your mistaken" with a lot more nastiness then needed. I don't mind Peter and Caspian's argument outside the How, It wasn't unrealistic.

A lot of my problem with Peter's character in the PC movie is that he doesn't seem to have been changed. To me, "once a king or queen in Narnia, always a king or queen," means a permanant character change. I think Peter would have come back to England a humbler, more self-sacrificing character after having ruled in Narnia for all those years. He would have been grateful for his time in Narnia. Movie Peter, on the other hand, seems to feel he has a right to go back to Narnia and that Aslan is being mean in preventing him from returning and ruling again. His introduction of himself as High King Peter the Magnificent shows that kind of "I deserve this" pride that I don't think the real Peter would have showed. And yes, the confidence in his navigation abilities is very similar, but in the movie he has a much nastier attitude about his belief that he's right. And I can't remember at the moment, but does he have any kind of personal moment with Aslan admitting his faults in the movie? All I can picture right now is everyone coming up with Caspian at the river...