I wanted to take a look at the character of Edmund in the upcoming VDT movie. Particularly the temptation of Edmund....
Trailer Quote:
Someone (probably Coriakin): You are all about to be tested.
[This isn't an exact quote, was too lazy , but it's close.]
The Dawn Treader is like Screwtape for kids. It's all about temptation. And in the movie you'll see them be tempted one after the other.
I couldn't help but find it odd at the push to make temptation such a huge theme in this movie. I suppose to give the characters more of an arc to make it a more interesting movie. ( ) But the reason I wanted to look particularly at Edmund was because of the line the White Witch gives in the trailer... I have a different interpretation of it than most people I think.
But backing up a bit first, I believe Edmund's temptation in this movie is going to be his desire to be king.
"The King who owned this island," said Caspian slowly, and his face flushed as he spoke, "would soon be the richest of all Kings of the world. I claim this land forever as a Narnain possession. It shall be called Goldwater Island. And I bind all f you to secrecy. No one must know of this. Not even Drinian--on pain of death, do you hear?"
"Who are you talking to?" said Edmund. "I'm not subject of yours. If anything it's the other way round. I am one of the four ancient sovereigns of Narnia and you are under allegiance to the High King my brother.""Caspian," said Edmund suddenly and sternly, "you can't do this."
...
"By the Mane of Aslan," said Caspian, "I had thought you were all my subjects here, not my schoolmasters."
"I'm not," said Edmund, "and I say you can not do this."
Ed's desire to be king isn't completely inaccurate from the book, because he does bring up the fact twice that Caspian has no lordship over him. And the bits that we know about the movie thus far seem to support that idea.
Trailer Quotes:
Edmund: Squirt! I'm a king!
Lucy: Not in this world.White Witch: Edmund, I can make you my king, and much more.
Also a while back, Ben Barnes mentioned in an interview something that could loosely be interpreted that his kingship might be challenged a bit by the Pevensies arrival.
The king is in charge, for a start, although then the kids turn up and they kind of [can't repeat... not appropriate for the forum] on his bonfire a bit!
Now, having said all of that, when I saw the trailer, I couldn't help but find the White Witch's line to Edmund really rather odd the first time I saw it. Particularly after they seemed to end Ed's relationship with the WW in PC when he stabbed the ice.
But after thinking about it for a while, I believe he's going to relive his nightmare from the time of LWW when she first tempted him to be king. And in doing so, I believe that this scene may be the turning point for Edmund in the movie. While his desire to be king again may come to a climax at Goldwater, I suspect he will harbor some desire to be in charge over Caspian. Perhaps seeing the White Witch again, and realizing that this is the same temptation he faced in LWW, will bring an end to the theme for Edmund.
(By the way, I don't believe this will be a rehash of what we saw Peter go through in the PC movie. I believe this will be first of all, closer to the book, and second of all, from the perspective that both Caspian and Edmund serve High King Peter, and really don't know for sure who is to be in charge.)
Thoughts?
If indeed the major characters are all going to have this "temptation theme", what you say makes sense. Edmund's attitude on Deathwater Island, that he is not a subject of Caspian's, is something the filmmakers could use to extrapolate back to when he arrives on the Dawn Treader.
Coupled with the Ben Barnes' quote, this would appear to be the case with Edmund. Plus, as noted, it does tie in with Edmund's first encounter with the White Witch.
So my thoughts are that this will be Edmund's test: The desire to exercise kingly authority when he should be deferring to the current king, Caspian.
Since both encounters about authority and kingship in the book concerning Edmund are with Caspian, it would be logical for the movie to follow this path as well.
Loyal2Tirian
There is definitely no "a" in definite.
The Mind earns by doing; the Heart earns by trying.
Yes this is something I was too analyzing after those scenes in the trailer. I think it would be completely in character for Edmund if they did this. I can understand some people being a bit outraged that he'll possibly act in childish way with Caspian like Cowboys and indians and who claims higher authority. It already sounds like peter in PC. But that's the PC's adaptation's fault.
I think it would make a great way for Aslan to tell Edmund towards the end that
Long Live King Caspian & Queen Liliandil Forever!
Jill+Tirian! Let there be Jilrian!
I agree FK. There is a lot to suggest that Edmund may want to be King. A King over Caspian. I agree also that it may be the sort of turning point for Edmund and maybe for Eustace also, at the Dark Island.
There are no clouds in the sky. There is only the open sun and the Lord watches.
wow! I like your theory and I agree about it. Edmund isn't repeating Peter's rant from PC and yes, he has some of the wanting to be king thing in VotDT book. I had thought of this before the trailer came out, so that's why I wasn't bothered by his "Squirt! I'm a king!" line.
Edmund is indeed reliving his temptation from WW in LWW, but only as a dream! I actually love this concept and if they keep it to that, which I am sure they will, then it will come off beautifully and we'll have a good movie!
NW sister - wild rose ~ NW big sis - ramagut
Born in the water
Take quick to the trees
I want all that You are
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EADBC57vKfQ
That's an interesting theory, FK. It's been a while since I've read VDT...I'm going to have to go back and reread it soon. But yes, I do remember those quotes you posted.
I understand why the filmmakers decided to make temptation a major theme in VDT. After all, in the book, Lucy is tempted by the beauty spell in the Magician's Book, and Eustace is tempted by the horde of treasure on Dragon Island. The filmmakers just needed a temptation for Edmund, and since evidence of him wanting authority over Caspian was already there in the book, perhaps they just took this to another level with his temptation to be king.
Av and Sig by Aravis Autarkeia
As long as Edmund's struggle is handled differently from Peter's in PC, then this will be OK. From the trailer it would appear that this would be the case. No Peter 2, thank you very much.
And welcome to NarniaWeb, Silver the Wanderer.
Loyal2Tirian
There is definitely no "a" in definite.
The Mind earns by doing; the Heart earns by trying.
I think it would make a great way for Aslan to tell Edmund towards the end that
Spoilerhimself is the Higher of high kings since he is God.
Interesting thought, DJP. I think that would be really neat!
I agree with fantasia_kitty's thoughts. That's what I had already been thinking,. From the evidence we've seen so far, it doesn't really worry me, because it seems like they're covering it from a unique angle that fits with the story. Also, I think it will work better than Peter's episode because C.S. Lewis already hinted about this in the book - such as at Deathwater Island when Caspian & Ed are arguing. (although, I have to wonder... since they are both under
av by dot
Although, I have to wonder... since they are both under
Spoilerthe strange influence of the water, does it still count as a character arc?
I don't believe for a minute they're under the influence of anything except their own greed. There's no evidence of it at all. Aslan befuddles them while they were there and after they leave... probably so they completely forget about the island.
Well, yes and no. Reepicheep does say that the island has a curse on it, but I don't think Caspian and Edmund's behavior can be attributed to only the curse. And they don't completely forget about the island. At the end of the world when Caspian wants to leave he tells Drinian to not land on Deathwater.
I really don't think there's enough evidence to say that Edmund wanted to be in authority over Caspian. Edmund pulls out his trump card twice: on Deathwater, and at the world's end. On Deathwater, he was overcome by greed. At the world's end, everyone on board was trying to convince Caspian not to go. But it looks like I am the only one with this opinion.
What does the White Witch mean by "And much more?" Is she trying to seduce him or somehting? Or marry him?
Anyway, I never read VotDT but I listed to the radio series by Focus on the Family. I don't remember her being in the story. And I thought she died in the LWW?
I was always under the impression that the island was under some sort of curse that inflicted magical greed on people. Aslan broke the spell and thus they couldn't quite remember what they were doing under the effect of the spell. As for Edmund pulling the king card on Caspian at the end of the world, everyone wanted to keep Caspian from going. That's two instances out of the entire book and one of them was due to magic. Hardly a character arc.
What does the White Witch mean by "And much more?" Is she trying to seduce him or somehting? Or marry him?
I think when she said this I was thinking King of other lands or supreme ruler over all the galaxies. A even bigger ruler. Something along those lines is what I thought.
Long Live King Caspian & Queen Liliandil Forever!
Jill+Tirian! Let there be Jilrian!
I don't remember her being in the story. And I thought she died in the LWW?
Correct on both counts. She is not in VDT (the book) and she is dead.
That's two instances out of the entire book and one of them was due to magic. Hardly a character arc.
ditto
I think a couple of you missed the entire point of my post... which is probably my fault. I rewrote it like 3 or 4 times so it may not have been clear.
Doug Gresham said that each main character experiences temptation. What this thread was for was (part 1) to THEORIZE what Edmund's temptation might be, based off of the little (and debatably if any) evidence in the book, and (part 2) as I personally believe that his temptation will be to king again, if the White Witch nightmare might play any part of that.
I really don't think there's enough evidence to say that Edmund wanted to be in authority over Caspian. ... But it looks like I am the only one with this opinion.
No, you're absolutely right. Unlike Lucy (wanting to be beautiful like Susan), Eustace (sleeping on Dragon gold), and Caspian (longing to explore to the farthest ends of his world and on to other worlds like ours), Edmund's temptation is not clearly drawn out at all in the book. Personally, I don't believe his behavior on Deathwater was influenced by any magic at all as some here are suggesting and it's the ONLY time in the book where we see any "bad Edmund."
I also don't think for a minute his intentions were bad at the end of the world when he told Caspian that he couldn't go on. But it is interesting to note that he used the same statement there that he did on Deathwater... "I'm no subject of yours"... which was why I mentioned it in my original post.
I'm not trying to justify any character changes made from book to movie by the filmmakers. I'm only theorizing what they might be and where they might have gotten it.