@jasmine_tarkheena I’ve always been fascinated by the American Revolution era, not necessarily just the war itself, but the cultural shifts happening in the colonies at the time. (Quote 1)

Wow! What a great range of ancestry and interests you refer to in your reply.    Yes, like the Ottoman Empire which had been growing in strength, finally & decisively took over from the Byzantine Empire, at the fall of Constantinople on 29th May 1453 CE, the American Revolution has had a world-wide impact.

Did you know, for instance, that on 5th March of 1770, when the Boston Massacre took place, Captain James Cook likely left New Zealand, sighting the unvisited south-east coast of now Australia a few weeks later?  On 29th April, 1770, he discovered and named Botany Bay, where he met the Gweagal people, then he carefully explored and mapped this coast northward, and finally, on Possession Island in Torres Strait, took possession of the whole eastern coast, naming it New South Wales, to distinguish it from the rest of New Holland, named so, by Abel Tasman, a Vereenigde Oostindische Compagnie Captain in 1644, especially when he needed to send his journals & logs back to London, from Batavia, now Jakarta, the ongoing capital of the Dutch East Indies, before he could manage to arrive in Great Britain, himself. 

There are some questions about the American Revolution I'd like to find out about. Such as 1. When exactly did the American Revolution actually start, if it wasn't the Boston Massacre that I've mentioned here? 2. When was the famous Boston Tea Party, for example, & what was it all about? 3. We've seen the great monument outside of the Greenwich Observatory in London, dedicated to the memory of General Wolfe, whose victory over General Montcalm on the Field of Abraham was highly regarded. I only have a very sketchy idea of the travails of North America; did this battle have any direct impact on the subsequent American Revolution, I wonder?

4. Sydney was founded on 26/01/1788 on the shores of Port Jackson but on the same day, two French ships arrived in Botany Bay, just as the British First Fleet was vacating that site. I understand from the tourist leaflet I kept from the French Museum at La Pérouse, in Sydney, that Le Comte de La Pérouse, the French commander of those two ships, had played some role in North American hostilities, at Louisburg, & at the Battle of Quiberon, & wonder exactly where these places were? 5. As a matter of interest, I'd also like to know about what part the French played in the American Revolution, and who was the Marquis De Lafayette? 6. (And finally), when after the 4th July 1776 Declaration of Independence, did this American Revolution, the precursor to three other revolutions, actually finish?

@jasmine_tarkheena I also love the medieval period, but for entirely different reasons (Quote 2)

Yes, I love that time as well, and when you refer to fairy tales, I've more than a suspicion that in our discussions elsewhere on NarniaWeb, that the period of time C.S Lewis chose for Narnia, reflects not only British history & culture, but also the end of the Byzantine Empire and the onset of the Ottoman Empire on 29th May, 1453.

There is a myth that the Roman Empire finished in 475 CE (AD previously). However, the Roman Empire split into 2 in 393 CE, with the Eastern part becoming the Byzantine Empire. The Western half struggled on under Theodosius 1st's son, Honorius, but thanks to the impact of first Attila the Hun at the Catalaunian Plains and then the Frankish invasion of a Roman province called "Gaul", not to mention other wandering hordes, the Western half soon collapsed under Odoacer. When the Eastern Roman half, with an increasingly Greek culture, lasted until 1453, that was over a thousand years. 

7. Who is your favourite & most inspirational historic figure and why do you hold him or her in such esteem?

At the moment, I'd have to choose Captain James Cook, himself, whose statue in Sydney's Hyde Park proclaims him as a heroic figure, when in obedience to his assigned mission, he took the likes of Sir Joseph Banks, and his fellow scientist, Daniel Solander, first to Tahiti, now part of French Polynesia, to observe the Transit of Venus, then to determine where New Zealand began. He circumnavigated both main islands of New Zealand, renamed by cartographer, Willem Janszoon Blaeu, after Abel Tasman, in 1642, called the country he'd found, Staten Landt. Then he proceeded to discover & map the Eastern coast of Australia, stopping at Botany Bay for a week, and which he called New South Wales, once he continued to the tip of Cape York Peninsula, reaching the point beyond where he recognised other explorers had already mapped the coastline he was tracing, including Abel Tasman, himself, in 1644. Captain Cook went on a second voyage, from 1772 - 1775, which explored as far south as the continent of Antarctica. But he died in Hawaii in 1779 on his third voyage, and one of his other achievements was his practice of feeding his crew on sauerkraut, a type of pickled cabbage, which protected them against scurvy.

He didn't discover the country now called Australia, nor was he either the first European or the first Englishman to land on the entire coastline of now Australia, nor was he personally responsible for suggesting or organising the eventual 1st European settlement at Sydney on 26/1/1788, and I wish people today would stop blaming him, inaccurately, for our subsequent history. I've linked to a few sites where I found answers & so feel free to disagree with anything I've said or linked to, when even the generally reliable Wikipedia entries have also been questioned from time to time.

@waggawerewolf27 

My apologizes for not replying any sooner. I've been pretty sick in the last couple of days (down with a cold and I currently don't have a voice, so I guess it's a good thing I'm typing and not actually talking (though there's the technology of speaking into a microphone and the words come out on screen. Though I prefer actual typing.)

I knew about Captain James Cook doing his exploration during the time the Revolution was happening. He even went to what would later become known as Alaska and Hawaii. Though the primary focus was on the East Coast of America, there was actually a lot happening. I've even heard that the English once used Australia as a place for prisoners. I don't know if that's entirely true, but it's intriguing to think about how different parts of the world were connected even back then.

@jasmine My apologizes for not replying any sooner. I've been pretty sick in the last couple of days (down with a cold and I currently don't have a voice...

I've even heard that the English once used Australia as a place for prisoners. I don't know if that's entirely true, but it's intriguing to think about how different parts of the world were connected even back then.

That is okay, and I do hope you have now recovered well, having a Merry Christmas, nonetheless. For myself, there has been plenty to do. And I needed to think carefully what to say when replying to your post, especially when talking about Australian history.

Yes, it is true that the British (not English alone) sent prisoners to now Australia. It seems that early in the 18th century, Great Britain with its turbulent history, had been sending its convicts to the state of Georgia, in particular, up to 1776 AD, when such transportation ceased there, when I checked internet. I'd been assuming that was due to the Declaration of Independence on 4th of July. But when I asked internet when Georgia became a state of USA, I was informed that Georgia did not formally became a state of the USA until 2nd January in 1788, sixteen days before the arrival of the fastest ship, HMAT Supply, of the First Fleet was only days from reaching Botany Bay, on 18th January, 1788, with the last ship, HMS Sirius, arriving Botany Bay, two days later. This First Fleet had been assembled to set out on 13th May, 1787, as a solution to the ongoing inadequacy of accommodating prisoners in hulks in the Thames estuary, following the loss of Georgia & other places to the United States, maybe because the war had halted such transportation.  

However, when the First Fleet did arrive, its commander, Governor Arthur Phillip, found that the land around Botany Bay was not as well-watered and as suitable as had been claimed by Sir Joseph Banks who stayed there with Captain James Cook on April 29th in 1770. So, they switched to a better site at Sydney Cove, to set up camp, finishing on 26th January in 1788. The settlement on Sydney Cove, was named Sydney after the then British Home Secretary, Thomas Townshend, 1st Viscount Sydney, who authorised this expedition & who also lent his name to a town in Nova Scotia, Canada. I've been reading Thomas Keneally's 2005 Commonwealth of Thieves: the Sydney experiment which made the claim that the cessation of convict transportation to Georgia provided a rationale for assembling this fleet to Botany Bay. He also says the local Eora were unimpressed by the newcomers, who would say "Werre werre" (or "Go back to where you come from") to the people of the settlement. And when the aborigines were fed up with British infractions of their own laws regarding usage of area by hunting etc, they invited Governor Arthur Phillip to some sort of festivity where they ritually speared him as punishment. Though he did not die of his injuries, he had to return to London, prematurely.

I learned that the over a thousand convicts who were settled in Sydney, proclaimed on 26th January in 1788 AD, came not only from England but also from Wales, Scotland, & Ireland, in particular. As well as some Jewish women, there were convicts from former American colonies, including a few Negros, who did well, once they served their time, founding a ferry service, I've heard. The convicts weren't enthralled at being marooned in a place that became notorious in song & legend as Botany Bay, so kept on trying to escape to China or anywhere else but where they were, with only Mary Bryant, a First Fleeter, escaping & actually succeeding in returning to Britain.

Matt Murphy's 2021 Rum: a distilled history of colonial Australia relates how, under cover of a wild storm & an equally wild drinking party, six men and a woman tried to enlist as crew on two French ships which had arrived outside Botany Bay on 24th January, & were assisted by Captain John Hunter of the Sirius two days later, to moor in Frenchman's Bay, in the Sydney suburb of La Perouse, named after their leader, Le Comte de La Pérouse.  L'Astrolabe & Le Boussole stayed in Botany Bay until 10th March. The French returned those seven convicts back to Arthur Phillip, who, the following day, 7th February 1788, proclaimed the area from Torres Strait to Point Hicks as New South Wales, confirming Captain Cook's 22nd August claim in 1770, when the new convict outpost was established precisely to forestall any French imperialism in that area. 

Sydney remains the administrative capital of the state of New South Wales, and until 1840, New Zealand as well. On the 1st of January 1901, the Commonwealth of Australia was finally proclaimed, including what was left of New South Wales, but the Federal Government was initially located in Melbourne, later being transferred to Canberra, in the Australian Capital Territory. However, Sydney was the first successful settlement in Australia, and the commemoration of its founding on 26th January in 1788 is now known as Australia Day. 

I've left links if you need more detailed information than I have been able to provide, & when I wanted to be as accurate as possible. Happy New Year's Day for tomorrow, also Australia's 124th anniversary of its 1901 Federation Day.  

Posted by: @waggawerewolf27

Sydney remains the administrative capital of the state of New South Wales, and until 1840, New Zealand as well. On the 1st of January 1901, the Commonwealth of Australia was finally proclaimed, including what was left of New South Wales, but the Federal Government was initially located in Melbourne... 

This was largely because, shortly after the colony of Victoria (south of the Murray River) separated from New South Wales in 1851, huge amounts of gold were discovered in the central plains of the new colony — resulting in a massive gold rush that made Melbourne, Victoria's capital, the biggest and richest and grandest city in Australia by the end of the 19th century. Which is probably why, to this day, we Melburnians still have a reputation (in the eyes of the rest of Australia) for being pretentious and totally full of ourselves.  

Posted by: @waggawerewolf27  

I've left links if you need more detailed information than I have been able to provide, & when I wanted to be as accurate as possible. Happy New Year's Day for tomorrow, also Australia's 124th anniversary of its 1901 Federation Day.  

One minor thing I just noticed - if I've calculated correctly, it's the 125th anniversary of Federation day rather than 124th, but otherwise - happy Federation Day anniversary (pity we don't celebrate that as a significant day in our Aussie history) and Happy New Year!

Posted by: @pete

happy Federation Day anniversary (pity we don't celebrate that as a significant day in our Aussie history)

I wish we did too, but the problem is that it falls on New Year's Day, which is already a public holiday, so that's probably why we don't make a big deal of it.  

Posted by: @pete One minor thing I just noticed - if I've calculated correctly, it's the 125th anniversary of Federation day rather than 124th, but otherwise - happy Federation Day anniversary (pity we don't celebrate that as a significant day in our Aussie history) and Happy New Year!

My fault, when my head was still in 2025, yesterday . We watched the fireworks on TV, except for our eldest daughter, on duty at Central Station. I could imagine the crowds, right up to 3.am, & how tired she must be. At midnight we celebrated the New Year, with Scottish shortbread and a small nip of Scotch. No first footer with a lump of coal, unfortunately. Hogmanay is quite a celebration in Scotland at New Year, and probably tonight we'll also be watching this year's Edinburgh Tattoo, if the ABC has programmed it, though I believe this year the Tattoo is coming to Brisbane (Otherwise known as Meeanjin, & founded in September in 1824). Brisbane, of course, was named after its founder, Governor Thomas Brisbane, also started with a small penal outpost at Redcliffe, in the Moreton Bay area, explored by Matthew Flinders in 1799. But Brisbane remained part of New South Wales, not becoming the capital of Queensland until 1859.

@courtenay... which is already a public holiday, so that's probably why we don't make a big deal of it

Federation celebrations.                  Exhibition Hall, next door to the museum, & worth a visit.     

@jasmine_tarkheena I don't know if that's entirely true, but it's intriguing to think about how different parts of the world were connected even back then.

Happy New Year!  

@waggawerewolf27, I've been trying to find out whether my great-great grandfather, a Methodist minister at the end of the 19th century and start of the 20th century was in the exhibition hall for the opening of parliament on May 9th 1901, as I know he was at Government house and met the new King of England at the Royal Levee on the previous day.  At this stage though, I have not found any conclusive proof that he was amongst that large gathering in the exhibition hall.  To be confirmed...

@pete At this stage though, I have not found any conclusive proof that he was amongst that large gathering in the exhibition hall.

Yes, the gathering was large. There might be records somewhere of just who was in attendance on 5th May, in 1901. The link I made with the National Museum of Australia might be a good place to start investigations, especially if that is the same museum we visited in 2011 where there is a great floor to ceiling depiction of the Australian coat of arms, and also a glass case enclosing an embalmed Phar Lap. It is right next door to the Royal Melbourne Exhibition Hall, & over the road from the Queen Victoria markets, I think it was.

It might also interest you that the author of the book I consulted, The Struggle for Unity: a story of the Federation of Australia, writing about his Queensland MLA ancestor, mentions that Rev Arthur Rutledge was a Minister of the Wesleyan (Methodist) Church from 1863-1878, switching his career to become a barrister & judge, as well as a sitting member for the Queensland seat of Maranoa. And when Rev Arthur Rutledge was a Methodist minister, there may well have been others, such as from other states.    The book is still available on eBay for as little as $21.60. I bought my own copy at a Probus meeting when Graham Wilcox was the guest speaker, over a decade ago. It depends on where your family connections would lead, I should imagine. 

I only found out by accident that my own great-grandparents had married on the day that Federation was proclaimed, when I looked through Victorian Births, Deaths and Marriages. I heard from an elderly relative that there was some difficulty about their getting married earlier, due to the family of Thomas Lawrence, (born in Glasgow in November of 1857), having had a fiancée picked out for him already in Dunedin, when he met my great-grandmother in Melbourne. By Federation they were the parents of three girls, the older two born in Coburg & Richmond, and my grandma being the youngest, born in Sydney in 1896. I've heard the reason why the 1901 Constitution had a definition of what a marriage was: "a union between a man and a woman", was because the Catholics regarded marriage as one of five sacraments, whereas the Anglicans only recognise two: baptism & the ordination of priests.  

@coracle Happy Waitangi Day to you and any other New Zealanders on NarniaWeb.  

For the entertainment of History Buffs, or the simply curious, including @courtenay, @pete, @jasmine_tarkheena, @jo & @davidd I've compiled this Wikipedia information about New Zealand here. 

Today is Waitangi Day, 6 February, which is New Zealand's national day. The Treaty of Waitangi (Māori: Te Tiriti o Waitangi) was first signed on 6 February 1840 on the grounds of James Busby's house—now known as Treaty House—at Waitangi, in the Bay of Islands. The treaty was signed by representatives acting on behalf of the British Crown and, initially, by about 45 Māori chiefs. Over the course of the next seven months, copies of the treaty were toured around the New Zealand archipelago by the British, and eventually around 540 Māori chiefs would sign. The signing had the effect of securing British sovereignty over the islands of New Zealand, which was officially proclaimed by the Lieutenant-Governor of New Zealand, William Hobson, on 21 May 1840.

New Zealand, also called Aotearoa, was first settled by the Māori people about 1250 AD onwards. Abel Tasman, Dutch seafarer and explorer, best known for his voyages of 1642 and 1644 in the service of the Dutch East India Company (VOC), found New Zealand's West coast in 1642, after being blown off course by a gale, rounding southern Tasmania. In a hostile 1642 encounter between Ngāti Tūmatakōkiri and Abel Tasman's crew, four of Tasman's crew members were killed and at least one Māori was hit by canister shot. He then sailed north east, and was the first European to discover the west coast of New Zealand, which he named Staten Landt. It was later renamed Nieuw Zeeland, after the Dutch province of Zeeland, by Joan Blaeu, official Dutch cartographer to the Dutch East India Company.

Europeans did not revisit New Zealand until 1769, when British explorer James Cook mapped almost the entire coastline. Following Cook, New Zealand was visited by numerous European and North American whaling, sealing, and trading ships. They traded European food, metal tools, weapons, and other goods for timber, Māori food, artefacts, and water. The British Government appointed James Busby as British Resident to New Zealand in 1832. His duties, given to him by Governor Bourke in Sydney, were to protect settlers and traders of good standing, prevent outrages against Māori, and apprehend escaped convicts, at first from NSW and Tasmania, then called Van Diemen's Land. George Bass who discovered Bass Strait and circumnavigated Van Diemen's Land, vanished into New Zealand, as did also the Rev. Samuel Marsden who once lived in Mamre house @ St Marys in NSW.

In 1835, following an announcement of impending French settlement by Charles de Thierry, the nebulous United Tribes of New Zealand sent a Declaration of Independence to King William IV of the United Kingdom asking for protection. Ongoing unrest, the proposed settlement of New Zealand by the New Zealand Company (which had already sent its first ship of surveyors to buy land from Māori) and the dubious legal standing of the Declaration of Independence prompted the Colonial Office to send Captain William Hobson to claim sovereignty for the United Kingdom and negotiate a treaty with the Māori.

Routes taken by Tasman in the Australasian region, on his first and second voyages

The Declaration of Independence was also to allow ships to be registered as New Zealand ones, instead of Australian. There were other 'freedom from Australian influence' aspects, which I can't remember offhand.

Thank you, Wagga!  Kia Ora, kia kaha! (be well, be strong - greetings)

Happy Waitangi Day, @coracle and any other Kiwis here!  

@coracle The Declaration of Independence was also to allow ships to be registered as New Zealand ones, instead of Australian

I used a few Wikipedia sources for that post, since I can't be expected to know everything in the world.   However, that particular Declaration of Independence was described as having dubious legal standing for a good reason. When Captain Cook discovered & mapped the previously unmapped Eastern coast of the land VOC captain Abel Tasman called New Holland, he claimed it for Great Britain, on Possession Island at the tip of Cape York Peninsula. This is what he actually said, according to one of our prolific media sources, including the ABC, the National Museum of Australia or In Touch, not sure which by now. 

"Having satisfied myself of the great probability of a passage, thro’ which I intend going with the ship, and therefore may land no more upon this eastern coast of New Holland, and on the western side I can make no new discovery the honour of which belongs to Dutch navigators...[being] confident [that area] was never seen or visited by an European before us, I had in the name of His Majesty taken possession of several places upon the coast, I now once more hoisted English colours and in the name of His Majesty King George the Third took possession of the whole eastern coast from the above latitude down to this place by the name of New South Wales"

I've underlined a bit of that speech which needs to be thought about. Yes, Captain Cook did claim what he discovered as New South Wales. But that didn't include Van Diemen's Land let alone Bass Strait, which until Bass & Flinders circumnavigated it in 1798 & 1799, wasn't completely explored. There was another explorer, Nicholas Baudin, out for the economic interests of France, & hanging around that area, nor was he the first Frenchman around, having a look at the whole Van Diemen's Land/Bass Strait area. 

I don't think Captain Cook claimed anything for Great Britain which the VOC's Dutch Republic captains had mapped or had visited, which includes New Zealand, as named by VOC mapmaker, Joan Blaue, even though he circumnavigated much of it. Now, the Dutch Republic, still in existence in 1770, when he visited VOC headquarters in Batavia (now Jakarta in Indonesia), after his 22nd August in 1770 proclamation. Eighteen months after Sydney was established, the French Revolution broke out on 14/7/1789. Just because the regime had changed in France didn't mean French imperialism died with Louis XVI, who in 1783 commissioned La Pérouse to finish James Cook's Pacific explorations.

On 19th January 1795, French Revolutionary armies invaded the then Dutch Republic, itself, naming the area the Batavian Republic. There seems to have been a school of thought that the French, now owning the short-lived Batavian Republic, owned the territories the Dutch republic had owned. But it wasn't a point of view held by the last Dutch Republic Stadtholder, William V. Napoleon Bonaparte also complicated the situation, especially when his French governor in Mauritius held Matthew Flinders prisoner there, until 1810. When he was defeated at Waterloo, in 1815, the son of the last Stadtholder became King in the Netherlands, in place of Louis Bonaparte, Napoleon's brother. 

NSW Governor King in 1801 sent one of his captains to the Bass Strait Island named now after himself, to claim those parts for Great Britain. But already, sealers, whalers, escaped convicts etc had been moving in, to settle there. Someone called George Vancouver, with an obvious Canadian connection, formed a settlement at Albany in Western Australia before the city of Perth was finally founded by Captain James Sterling in 1828. But I don't know much about George Vancouver and what he was doing down here, in this direction. 

@waggawerewolf27 I learned about the NZ Declaration of Independence at a course 30 years ago. It seemed to make sense. 

Thank you for your research! I hope you enjoyed learning about NZ.

I found this: https://nzhistory.govt.nz/culture/declaration-of-independence-taming-the-frontier

I'm a bit late in the day @coracle, but Happy Waitangi Day to you, and to any other New Zealanders on here!