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Did Ramandu's daughter go barefoot as a queen?

Mickey
(@mickey)
NarniaWeb Regular

I've noticed that Ramandu's daughter is depicted barefoot in the illustration, so I was wondering if she kept going barefoot after she became the Queen of Narnia? If she did, that would have been pretty much defying social norms.

This topic was modified 4 weeks ago by Mickey
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Topic starter Posted : August 21, 2025 6:19 pm
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DavidD
(@davidd)
NarniaWeb Regular

The only pictures of her in Narnia don't really show her feet (except possibly in the fourth panel where she is carried on a stretcher - I could not tell you whether she is bare foot or in brown boots though - what do you think?):

ch04AParliamentOfOwls_pg035_PrinceRillianBackStory.jpg

Given that she looks like she is wearing normal Narnian clothing in the first two panels, I am guessing she would be wearing shoes.

I used to walk to the local shops barefoot (if I needed to quickly pick up some milk or something) when I grew up in Perth. Once I moved to Canada, it was not considered kosher over here - my wife was very embarrassed.

The term is over: the holidays have begun.
The dream is ended: this is the morning

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Posted : August 21, 2025 7:18 pm
Silverlily
(@silverlily)
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I like to think she did sometimes, even if not always. Like there's a certain wildness mixed with the gentleness in her. Besides, more than half her court is Beasts and nature spirits -- they would hardly mind!

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Posted : August 21, 2025 7:27 pm
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Cobalt Jade
(@cobalt-jade)
NarniaWeb Nut

She's barefoot because there weren't any cobblers on her island! 

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Posted : August 22, 2025 9:58 am
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Silverlily
(@silverlily)
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@cobalt-jade Well if that was the only reason, where do her clothes come from? I don't know about any sheep, spindles, looms, or seamstresses on the island either!

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Posted : August 22, 2025 6:21 pm
Courtenay
(@courtenay)
NarniaWeb Fanatic Hospitality Committee

I'm guessing the main reason she's barefoot is that Pauline Baynes chose to draw her that way, perhaps to imply she's "close to nature". The text of the book doesn't say anything about her footwear or lack of it, so I doubt there's any deeper meaning to it, and obviously it wasn't something Lewis himself envisioned as part of her character. (Baynes' illustrations are absolute classics and a special part of the Chronicles, but I don't take them as absolute canon as far as details go. She does occasionally make outright mistakes, like Caspian having a globe of the world in his cabin when we discover later in the same book that the world of Narnia is flat. Or indeed, Lucy having black hair. Wink

As for where Ramandu's daughter got her clothes from, I'd say that's just one of those questions we're not supposed to ask. Like where did the Narnians, during the White Witch's hundred-year winter, get all the fresh ingredients needed to make bread for toast, or a sugar-topped cake, or a marmalade roll, or potatoes for that matter... Giggle   (Lewis had at least one friend or colleague ask him that same question directly after LWW was published and he couldn't answer it himself. For me, it all just falls under the category of It's Magic, Duhhh. Grin

"Now you are a lioness," said Aslan. "And now all Narnia will be renewed."
(Prince Caspian)

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Posted : August 23, 2025 12:54 am
Mickey
(@mickey)
NarniaWeb Regular

Yes, but Baynes did her illustrations while Lewis was still alive, so it's likely that what she drew was in accordance with how he imagined it.

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Topic starter Posted : August 23, 2025 6:24 am
Courtenay
(@courtenay)
NarniaWeb Fanatic Hospitality Committee
Posted by: @mickey

Yes, but Baynes did her illustrations while Lewis was still alive, so it's likely that what she drew was in accordance with how he imagined it.

He did have some input into her illustrations for each book while she was doing them, and would occasionally suggest changes when he noticed something that was outright incorrect — one example Baynes herself once mentioned was when she drew somebody facing the wrong way while rowing a boat. But from what I've read, she and Lewis didn't have a particularly close working relationship — he was generally complimentary about her work when writing to her, but could apparently be quite condescending about her when speaking to his male friends and colleagues — and I don't get the impression that there was a lot of back-and-forth between them on the fine details of her drawings.

Basically, it seems Lewis mostly left it up to Baynes as to how she interpreted the characters and scenes, so one can't say for certain that any particular details in her illustrations (ones that aren't mentioned in the text itself) were specified by him — unless we have evidence that they communicated over those details, which in most cases we don't. (Lewis mainly corresponded with Baynes by post during the illustrating process and I don't think they met in person very often.) 

"Now you are a lioness," said Aslan. "And now all Narnia will be renewed."
(Prince Caspian)

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Posted : August 23, 2025 8:46 am
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DavidD
(@davidd)
NarniaWeb Regular

I took @cobalt-jade ‘s comment about cobblers as a joke (hope I am not misrepresenting you, sorry if I am).

I think much concerning Ramandu’s daughter is meant to be a mystery. She’s the daughter of an elderly star: how does that work? Who is her mother? Is she human, or star, or child-of-star-race? I don’t think we’re meant to ask these questions and I don’t want the answers. 🙂 

 

Edit (And now to contradict myself):

As far as "where do Ramandu's daughter's clothes come from" (and Ramandu's too for that matter)...

Earlier in the book Aslan was able to provide clothes for Eustace after he had been de-dragonified:

"After a bit the lion took me out and dressed me—"
"Dressed you. With his paws?"
"Well, I don't exactly remember that bit. But he did somehow or other: in new clothes—the same I've got on now, as a matter of fact.

And Aslan was able to provide food for the Ramandu and his daughter everyday:

"But how does the food keep?" asked the practical Eustace.
"It is eaten, and renewed, every day," said the girl. "This you will see."

Then the birds stopped their singing and appeared to be very busy about the table. When they rose from it again everything on the table that could be eaten or drunk had disappeared. These birds rose from their meal in their thousands and hundreds and carried away all the things that could not be eaten or drunk, such as bones, rinds, and shells, and took their flight back to the rising sun.

So, my boring, unsatisfactory answer is 'I guess Aslan could have provided Ramandu and his' daughter with clothing'. 😀 


The term is over: the holidays have begun.
The dream is ended: this is the morning

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Posted : August 23, 2025 9:26 am
Cobalt Jade
(@cobalt-jade)
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I meant it as a joke. 

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Posted : August 23, 2025 9:52 am
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Courtenay
(@courtenay)
NarniaWeb Fanatic Hospitality Committee
Posted by: @davidd

I think much concerning Ramandu’s daughter is meant to be a mystery. She’s the daughter of an elderly star: how does that work? Who is her mother? Is she human, or star, or child-of-star-race? I don’t think we’re meant to ask these questions and I don’t want the answers. 🙂 

I agree. It's interesting to speculate sometimes, but also nice to have mysteries and unexplained things in a fantasy world. 

Obviously Ramandu's daughter is either part-human or else of a species that can interbreed with humans, as of course she and Caspian have a son, but that's about as much as we can say for sure. I always find it a little sad that Lewis never develops her character any further than the trope of a mysterious and incredibly beautiful woman for Caspian to fall in love with, and we never really find out any more about her than that before she's killed by the serpent / Green Witch. (I was going to say she "dies young", but does she really, considering she's at least half star by parentage and could potentially be as long-lived as her father?) She's not even given a name, canonically.

(I know she's called Lilliandil in the movie, and I've heard that Douglas Gresham suggested the name, but it makes me cringe. It just sounds too much like the "-dil" suffix from one of Tolkien's Elvish names (cf. Eärendil) stuck rather awkwardly onto an old-fashioned Earthly name... and it probably doesn't help that my great-grandmother was called Lillian.  Eyebrow

"Now you are a lioness," said Aslan. "And now all Narnia will be renewed."
(Prince Caspian)

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Posted : August 23, 2025 10:46 am
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Silverlily
(@silverlily)
NarniaWeb Junkie

...Lewis' approval on the bare feet or not in her case, he did make a point of Coriakin's feet being bare, didn't he? So you could argue from that that it may have been either a custom or preference of Stars, as Coriakin definitely had access to whatever he wanted clothes and resources wise. It could be a close to earth thing in his case as one user suggested for RD, but i... I like the thought that, you know, Stars' business is in their feet. The Great Dance, you know. Maybe it's less about feeling the *earth* than feeling the *sky*, wind between your toes and whatever rhythm of magic pulses in your brothers' and sisters' song, and they might avoid shoes down on the surface because going so long without it feels unnatural, or to remember...

It's still only two data points though. It might mean more if (checks quickly) yes! Baynes also used the bare feet on Ramandu!! So at least in *her* mind it was a Star-thing, even if we can only be sure of one Star doing it via word of author. 

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Posted : August 24, 2025 12:38 am
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NotSwanwhite
(@whiteswan)
NarniaWeb Regular
Posted by: @courtenay

I know she's called Lilliandil in the movie, and I've heard that Douglas Gresham suggested the name, but it makes me cringe. It just sounds too much like the "-dil" suffix from one of Tolkien's Elvish names (cf. Eärendil) stuck rather awkwardly onto an old-fashioned Earthly name... and it probably doesn't help that my great-grandmother was called Lillian.  Eyebrow

Sorry for getting a little off-topic, but the name they chose for her could have been a lot worse. (Not saying I love it btw, it also makes me cringe)

 

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Wrong will be right, when Aslan comes in sight
At the sound of his roar, sorrows shall be no more
When he bares his teeth, winter meets it's death
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Posted : August 24, 2025 3:06 am
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Mickey
(@mickey)
NarniaWeb Regular

@silverlily Ramandu is also described by Lewis himself as being barefoot ("His silver beard came down to his bare feet"), so I tend to think that stars are averse to shoes in general (also, the Hermit of the Southern March is barefooted, so there were fan theories that he's a star as well).

This post was modified 3 weeks ago by Mickey
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Topic starter Posted : August 24, 2025 6:20 pm
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