What if Meryl is not being cast as Aslan but, instead being cast as Aslan's mom, because Aslan is the Son of the Emperor from overseas?  This idea keeps popping up in my thoughts over and over again, I figured I needed to say something now since I have not heard this idea from anyone yet. Aslan is still a Lion and is a young lion at the time of Magician's Nephew. (I realize a lot of people would consider this heresy since Narnia is primarily a Christian story, but, Greta is not a Christian whatever her background or upbringing may have been. I do not think she may realize all the implications of this. I do not think Greta is trying to do anything that bad, she is just trying to present it as she sees it.)

@eustace I guess I like this better than Ms. Streep being cast as Aslan, but it still feels very “non-canonical” to me.  
As far as I recall, the Emperor Beyond the Sea (i.e. God the Father) never actually appears in the Chronicles, just as he doesn’t personally “appear” in the New Testament - so having him/her show up in the movie would be unusual.  Also, in Professor Lewis’ Chronicles, I believe the Emperor is specifically called out as Aslan’s father, not his mother.

Posted by: @nebuchadnezzar

@eustace I guess I like this better than Ms. Streep being cast as Aslan, but it still feels very “non-canonical” to me.  
As far as I recall, the Emperor Beyond the Sea (i.e. God the Father) never actually appears in the Chronicles, just as he doesn’t personally “appear” in the New Testament - so having him/her show up in the movie would be unusual.  Also, in Professor Lewis’ Chronicles, I believe the Emperor is specifically called out as Aslan’s father, not his mother.

I can't remember an exact reference to the Emperor as Aslan's father offhand, but I'm pretty sure there is one somewhere in the books. In any case, Lewis was writing at a time when gender-neutral language was far less of a thing than it is today. If the Emperor was intended to be female, it's absolutely certain (s)he would have been called the Empress. (Jadis / the White Witch is referred to as Empress of Charn in MN, and indeed as Empress of the Lone Islands in LWW.)

Of course in the Bible, Jesus has a mother, who is highly revered in the Catholic and Orthodox traditions and to some extent in the Anglican tradition (I'm not sure what Lewis's views on her were), but even when she is referred to as the "Mother of God", nobody is suggesting she is meant to be a member of the Trinity! And although Aslan is intended as a fictional idea of what Jesus Christ might be like if he came in a different form to another world that needed saving, Lewis is not writing allegory and he doesn't stretch the parallels too far. There's not the slightest implication that Aslan was born to a virgin lioness, who was visited beforehand by an angel and told she was to bear the Son of the Emperor. (Let alone any scenes where the cub Aslan is visited by some Narnian equivalent of the shepherds or the three wise men... )

And plot-wise, too, there's no need for Aslan to have a mother, and I can't see that concept doing anything for the story other than making the Christian symbolism far more obscure and nebulous (possibly even more than making Aslan into a female Christ-figure would do). Like a lot of others here, I really do hope that the Meryl Streep rumour was wrong from the start. But we still don't know yet.

Posted by: @eustace

What if Meryl is not being cast as Aslan but, instead being cast as Aslan's mom, because Aslan is the Son of the Emperor from overseas? 

For me this would be just as bad, if not worse.  Because the same thing still lies at the heart of the issue, which is taking the source material and making it into something that it was never meant to be.  Personally Aslan's enigmatic compassion for Digory and his situation resonates with me as a reader exponentially more than some reason conjured up for the film could.  "Oh Aslan loves his mum too, hurray".  

Still keeping my fingers, hooves and tail crossed for Aunt Letty or something  

Posted by: @courtenay

 

I can't remember an exact reference to the Emperor as Aslan's father offhand, but I'm pretty sure there is one somewhere in the books. In any case, Lewis was writing at a time when gender-neutral language was far less of a thing than it is today. If the Emperor was intended to be female, it's absolutely certain (s)he would have been called the Empress. (Jadis / the White Witch is referred to as Empress of Charn in MN, and indeed as Empress of the Lone Islands in LWW.)

I think the Emperor is referred to as 'Aslan's great Father' in TLB when Peter banishes Tash in the Stable

Posted by: @hermit

I think the Emperor is referred to as 'Aslan's great Father' in TLB when Peter banishes Tash in the Stable

Yes, you're right. I've just found the exact passage:

"Begone, Monster, and take your lawful prey to your own place: in the name of Aslan and Aslan's great Father the Emperor-over-sea." (p. 121 in the Penguin edition)

Considering the Emperor never makes an appearance or has even an implicit personal presence anywhere in the Chronicles, though, I can't imagine any reasonably faithful adaptation putting him in as an actual character, let alone turning him into Aslan's great Mother to add some gender balance.

Anyway, we're hearing more and more and more talk now about "Netflix's Narnia" and what a big thing it's going to be, so they can't back out of it now as they might still have done in the early stages of Gerwig's involvement if things took a turn for the worse and somebody at the top decided the project (or this version of it) wasn't viable. It's only a matter of time before we hear for sure, at last, who is playing the voice of Aslan, whether it's Meryl Streep or someone else (and who Streep is playing if she is in it but she's not Aslan). And if it turns out to be a male actor, that will restore my faith in this being (hopefully) a very good movie — and if it IS Streep as Aslan, well, as I've said, I'll watch the result once out of sheer curiosity, but there'll be no way I can accept it as a genuine adaptation of Narnia.

Posted by: @courtenay

Anyway, we're hearing more and more and more talk now about "Netflix's Narnia" and what a big thing it's going to be, so they can't back out of it now as they might still have done in the early stages of Gerwig's involvement if things took a turn for the worse and somebody at the top decided the project (or this version of it) wasn't viable. 

I know they already decided that Matthew Aldrich's vision for Narnia wasn't viable either...I'm really curious where they drew the line that time.  

Posted by: @glenwit

I know they already decided that Matthew Aldrich's vision for Narnia wasn't viable either...I'm really curious where they drew the line that time.  

Yes, that's one puzzling thing, and I think I've mentioned it before. Going by the little that Aldrich has said, Netflix's decision to turn him down was at least partly because he wanted to approach the books in a way that was "respectful but not precious" and to "sort of update them in some fun ways" (I'm paraphrasing there, as I can't remember offhand where the interview with him is, but I think that's pretty much what he said). Presumably he was more specific than that when telling the Netflix top people what he was actually intending to do, and whatever it was, they rejected it.

And yet, if the rumour is true, they've now given the green light to a version that includes either Aslan as a female lion, or as a male lion but with a female voice, which I think to most people (even casual fans) is a change that goes way beyond being "respectful but not precious" and, if it can be called an "update", is not one that would come across as merely "fun"...

It's more than a little baffling, the whole thing. If the Streep-as-Aslan rumour is true, why on earth would they think that's a good idea — and if it isn't true, why don't they just come out and say so??

I'm still wondering if Gerwig and Streep were merely "in talks" — they've worked together before, and Gerwig has admitted to being "in awe" of the veteran actress — and were just initially chatting about which role Meryl might want to play in Narnia, and Meryl (going for the top job, naturally) said "Oh, Aslan, of course!!", entirely as a joke... and somebody overheard that, and the rumour mill got to work from there, and since it had come up in the conversation (however facetiously), Gerwig and co. figured it'd be fun to watch the fanbase go absolutely crazy over this for a while...  

(Let's face it, it's either something like that, or they really ARE going to go ahead with a change that is so controversial and so unjustifiable that it's likely to make the whole project bomb on the first film, which really wouldn't be a good idea. )

Posted by: @courtenay

(Let's face it, it's either something like that, or they really ARE going to go ahead with a change that is so controversial and so unjustifiable that it's likely to make the whole project bomb on the first film, which really wouldn't be a good idea. )

After getting our hopes up for the last (almost) 7 years about having showrunners that would respect the source material, we're definitely not off to a great start here! I can already see the articles about "review bombing" campaigns. 

@glenwit Well, as I said, even if the dreaded rumour turns out to be true, I will still watch this film at least once, because it's not fair to criticise it if I haven't seen it. But if Aslan really is going to be female, or voiced by a woman, or indeed anything else that's just too drastic a change to the character we know from the books, I'm definitely not confident that I'll like the movie — and I don't think a huge number of fans will like it either. 

There are really only 3 possibilities

1) The rumour is true and they really are going to make Aslan female, or give him a feminine voice.

2) The rumour is false and Netflix are refusing to deny it just to stir up controversy and interest in the project.

3)The rumour is false and Nexflix are refusing to deny it (and perhaps even started it) to provide cover for other changes that are more subtle and more subversive.

What could be worse than a female Aslan? A male Aslan who is malevolent or at least uncaring. How about this for a plot change? After planting the Tree of Protection Aslan refuses to give Digory and apple for his mother. But he (or more likely Polly) manages to steal an apple for her without Aslan's knowledge.

i really find it hard to imagine Gerwig depicting a male deity who is benevolent.

Posted by: @hermit

2) The rumour is false and Netflix are refusing to deny it just to stir up controversy and interest in the project.

What could be worse than a female Aslan? A male Aslan who is malevolent or at least uncaring. How about this for a plot change? After planting the Tree of Protection Aslan refuses to give Digory and apple for his mother.

It's quite a gamble there if they are purposely stirring controversy if it is indeed untrue rumours. There's a real risk of losing the close fans of Narnia if there is that level of doubt and mistrust left over regarding any important decisions. I don't know why they'd risk it...

I do hope Aslan's character isn't messed around with. It could so easily miss the original meaning then. And what do you end up with... more alienation for true Narnia fans. But hey, if they want to capture a huge audience, maybe the majority of people wouldn't take issue with such changes, and that will suit Netflix and the filmmakers most...

Yet I still have some hope Gerwig wants to retain the integrity of the stories that resonated with her so much when she was younger. 🙂

I actually feel like I'd be more open to making Aslan a lioness if this were The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. I know that's weird since Aslan losing and regaining his mane is a big deal in that story whereas the mane doesn't do much in The Magician's Nephew but hear me out. There have already been a number of adaptations of LWW which get Aslan's gender correct. (Mind you, I'm not sure I'd say any of those adaptations is quite as great as the book, but they all get that detail right.) I don't think changing the character's gender would be a particularly good idea, but I can sympathize with the impulse to do some kind of new twist on the material. (I'd probably feel more comfortable if all the characters were gender flipped in that case, so it was like The Lioness, the Warlock and the Wardrobe. Having it just be Aslan feels either random or else driven more by ideology than aesthetics.) And, hey, I can always revisit one of the older adaptations. But the only other adaptations of MN are a couple of radio dramas. I feel like just doing that story is a twist on people's expectations of Narnia already. It doesn't need a new spin. 

Alright, I'm finally ready to comment in this thread again. 

I've had some time now to simmer down from the shock of the original Meryl Streep announcement. I'm personally still convinced it's something that's actually going to happen since I haven't heard any other news to the contrary, and I'm still not currently happy about this news. 

However.... What brings me by today, is I can't help but notice the big beautiful lion on the front page news story right now with the golden flowing mane. Does that mean anything for sure? Not necessarily, but just seeing it makes me feel a little bit better. 

I know you all have mentioned the possibility of having Streep voice a male lion, and I kind of wrote it off because...why bother when there are so many male actors with amazing voices? But I also realize that I had brought up the idea of AI months back, and how it could be used to modify the movie in various ways? 

And in terms of unusual role swapping, a few years ago I posted about how I really liked the look of Peter Dinklage in Thor: Ragnarok, where he played Eitri, a gigantic dwarf.  I remember mentioning how I really liked that look and scale for the idea of Narnian giants, and how interesting it would be to then take a tall, skinny person and transform them into Narnian dwarfs as it would match the scale found in the books. I still like that idea. 

So to put all of these rambling thoughts together, how would I personally feel if they swapped a male role for a female actress, but AIed the voice to make a male lion, because perhaps Gerwig feels that Streep could bring something to Aslan that no other male actor can..... how would I feel about that? 

I'm just really not sure. But I will say that I've at least arrived at a possibility that doesn't completely turn me off from seeing the movie altogether. I mean I WANT to see it, it's Narnia for heaven's sake. But I also still sit firmly in the position of not wanting to support anything that I feel goes against the beliefs of the author. So we shall see.