Posted by: @davidd

Oops - sorry, I misunderstood.  I did not mean to misrepresent you.

I didn't think you were misrepresenting me at all, don't worry — I was actually referring to an earlier comment from someone else who seemed to be misreading what I said (but who didn't quote me or address me directly, so I may be misreading them in turn and won't go calling that poster out either).  

To be fair, I think i'm part of the chain of inadvertent misunderstanding!  haha.

I too was also not actually responding to any particular comments on here, but rather just to the general sense of the reaction from Discord and elsewhere.

To me, there seems to be a fairly good reason why this particular church has been used so often in film productions, and why it has been used to represent places as diverse as the Halls of Asgard (in Age of Ultron), that secret creepy underground crypt in Sherlock Holmes, and as a backdrop for the world of Robin Hood (in Prince of Thieves) and that's because its not your typical village parish church. Its got way more interesting vibes going on.

That said, it clearly also looks like enough of an actual church to double up as a regular church in things like Four Weddings, but on the whole, i still think it would be unfair to dismiss it as a location for Charn on that basis. If its otherworldly enough for Asgard, its otherworldly enough for Charn.

I can see how it could double up as a grand Charn building with those high arches and such... But as others have said, it also is very clearly a (splendid) Mediaeval English church. It could be filmed for Charn, with added decorations, such as tapestries and banners, and digital enhancements made later on to 'Charnify' it further, as Ghost93 suggested.

Posted by: @icarus

To me, there seems to be a fairly good reason why this particular church has been used so often in film productions, and why it has been used to represent places as diverse as the Halls of Asgard (in Age of Ultron), that secret creepy underground crypt in Sherlock Holmes, and as a backdrop for the world of Robin Hood (in Prince of Thieves) and that's because its not your typical village parish church. Its got way more interesting vibes going on.

Having both attended a service in this church and watched Sherlock Holmes I hadn't made the connection that this is where the underground crypt was filmed (and wouldn't have guessed it was filmed in a church even), which shows that although it appears very clearly churchy from pictures, there's a lot that can be done to make it less obvious.

That being said I'm not sure it will be Charm for the same reason already suggested, Jadis's sci-fi-esque costume and the more I hear about this movie the less I expect any of it to match my vision of the book or expectations. 

Slightly off topic but I also don't know how I feel about filming in active churches in general. I know it happens a lot (my local Anglican Cathedral has been used for quite a few films) but part of me feels they should be reserved for worship as that is there intended purpose and closing them for filming prevents that. In fact I don't know how I feel about the way many churches have become tourist attractions either (although this doesn't apply to ruins or churches that no longer have any services or an active congregation). 

So this morning I decided to pop my head into St Bartholomew the Great as i was passing through the City of London, and I think i'm even more unsure now about what they might have filmed there than i was before!

The Case For Charn: I have to start by saying the location is even more impressive and atmospheric in person than it is from the photos. Over the past two weekends i've probably been in about 6 or so different churches in the City of London (largely as part of the London Open House Festival) and this church is definitely on another level to those (admittedly it helps that it survived the Great Fire of London in 1666, unlike a lot of the others which had to be rebuilt). The church building kind of looks tiny from the outside, but the main hall inside just feels vast and cavernous. The age and variation of brickwork from different centuries is remarkable, and the multi-level nature of all the different arches and alcoves makes it incredibly interesting architecturally, and definitely contributes to the Charn vibes. The biggest thing which makes it feel super Charn-like however is just how dirty the stonework is (almost completely blackened by 900 years of aging in places) and how dark it is inside (especially notable given how light and airy a lot of the Christopher Wren churches in the City are). The few shafts of light which do streak in through the highly placed windows almost seem to illuminate the dust in the air, creating a sort of smoky haze, making it feel even more creepy and atmospheric.

The Case Against: Despite everything i've just said pushing me further towards Book Charn, i think i have an even harder time believing now that this building could in any way be associated with Jadis based on her costume. Never mind the Roman-esque design elements of her armour, the simple fact is that its just too clean! This is a building where almost every exposed surface seems to have been blackened and tarnished by 900 years worth of existence, and yet Jadis' armour looks as good as new. Even if I was to argue that her armour might have been washed clean by coming through the pool (even though Jadis and Digory dont look like people who have been thoroughly drenched) i'd still expect it to look much more battered and weathered if it came from a Charn that looks like this. Therefore, i just can't imagine that two such completely incongruous design elements (Jadis' costume and this Church) would go together.

Overall: The only thing i am convinced of now is that the scene(s) they shot here are highly likely to be something significant. The length of time the building was closed for (10 days) either indicates a lot of prep work, or a lot of shooting. If all they wanted was a short scene with Digory praying for his mother, they wouldn't have needed to do any set dressing in the church, and it wouldn't have taken 10 days to film it. They also could have gone to a hundred other churches in London which are closer to Shepperton and easier to access. They had a little poster on a noticeboard by the door, listing all the films that had shot there previously, and I feel like they are all either movies which feature significant church scenes (such as Four Weddings) or movies with shorter scenes, but which require a uniquely historical or fantastical setting, thus justifying the effort of coming here.

Interesting thoughts, @icarus. I didn't know about St Bartholomew's when I lived near London, or else I might have visited some time!

It just occurred to me though, with neither the case for or against Charn being 100% convincing... given that so far as we've seen, this adaptation is definitely NOT sticking close to the original book — what if there's going to be some other other world that Digory and Polly visit through the pools, as well as Charn and the empty world that becomes Narnia??

I can't think that there'd be much room for that in a presumably-less-than-3-hours-long movie, and I can't imagine what it would do for the plot. But with all we've seen and heard so far about this production, nothing would really surprise me any more...  

@icarus who are their location scouts? If they're not locals, they're more likely to use something dramatic, famous, already known. 

Based on your cases for and against, @icarus, I am leaning more toward the probability of this church being used for scenes in Charn.  Still not sure if I'm prepared to vote on it yet though.  

Icarus, remember that Jadis, as well as all the other images in the Hall, had clothing that was fresh because of the spell they were under. They wouldn't have aged normally like the rest of Charn.

I'm late to this discussion, but I'm really hoping this is Charn.

I know most seem to have written off the idea that the costume we've seen Jadis riding around in is something she cobbled together while in London, but I think that might be the easiest way to reconcile the opposing styles of her outfit and St. Bartholomew. 

Posted by: @icarus

The only thing i am convinced of now is that the scene(s) they shot here are highly likely to be something significant. The length of time the building was closed for (10 days) either indicates a lot of prep work, or a lot of shooting. If all they wanted was a short scene with Digory praying for his mother, they wouldn't have needed to do any set dressing in the church, and it wouldn't have taken 10 days to film it.

Could we be seeing a flashforward to Cair Paravel being built? Or perhaps St. Bartholomew is being used a stand-in for Westminster Abbey, and this is where Jadis is heading to take over our world for a dramatic scene? According to the church's Wikipedia, it's been used as such before 🧐